New Alternate rules game!

[unclemike]

The issue with only 1 P* and no more wizards, it give pure military kingdoms a monsterous edge.  Everyone having one to start would be cool though.

Hiring additional wizards with order 511 doesn't occur until after turn 10. For fun, let's rank kingdoms with the condition of having only a single pwr-8 at start and the best 12 could play. Anyone want to try...

[Senior Tactician]

If you assume that kingdoms are relatively balanced, then those kingdoms that would benefit most from a power 8 would be those that would almost never normally have one.  How about this:

Red Dragons
Black Dragons
Dwarves
Tyrant
Halflings
Cimmerians
Sacred Order
Amazons
Lizard King
Pirates
Nomads
Rangers

[unclemike]

I don't see any wizard kingdoms in your list but I don't think they would be at that much of a disadvantage. Wizard kingdoms are the only ones with full access to all spells in the game. Other kingdoms have restrictive lists. That could be a factor in the long run.

If I were playing a wizard kingdom with a sole pwr-8, I wouldn't cast bounty in the first few turns but instead summon powerful undead troops. Wights, for example, have a defense rating value comparable to Ogres but they consume food/gold at a much lower cost. By a great factor actually: 500 vs 2,300 food and 1,000 vs 1,600 gold. Ogres are a solid troop type but Wights are pretty decent too.

Skeletons, for some reason no one loves except me, would have an accelerated growth rate by a pwr-8. A whopping 4 brigades per turn! So, in as little as 4 turns, your group would be at the maximum limit per group. Having 15 brigades of skeletons that consumes 0 food and a mere 4,500 gold and having a combat value of around 28,000 without leader bonuses is significant. Add a pwr-8 shield spell and those guys won't be taking much damage at all and if they do, they regenerate all of their attrition at the end of the turn.

Others may choose to cast bounty, or create gold, or do other things with their sole wizard which could be good as well. There are all kinds of possibilities with the court wizard scenario so try not to limit oneself when considering them. Actually, I wouldn't mind playing a wizard kingdom in this scenario to tell the truth...

[Senior Tactician]

A debate!  I accept!  If you only have a single power 8, you can at most summon 40 wights the entire game.  And a brigade of wights, or specters, my favorite, is not worth 16,000 gold.  I would gauge the value of any spell you cast against this since a single create gold spell gives the most versatility.  So, maybe 4 brigades of skeletons is worth it, but what kingdom doesn't eventually get this spell (I honestly don't know anymore)?

The most effective spells will undoubtedly be:
Bounty
Enhance kings aura (influence 100% effective)
Create gold/food
Maybe Skeletons
Infuriate populous
Teleport army group

That's pretty much it, except for offense, crack the sky, cold darkness, meter strike, summon death.

Now, I'm not looking at a spell list, so I may be leaving some out, but I wouldn't summon anything, including demons.

I maintain that military kingdoms would be better, even those that do not get summon skeletons.  I'd take rangers over any mage kingdom, I don't think they get skeletons.

[Strongwill]

I’m following this thread and I’m interested in this game., I was (just in my head) thinking the devout kingdoms, and specialty kingdoms UN PI could maybe hold their own against the military kingdoms? With the special abilities, political, and the exclusive agent stuff. I also think the companion type recruiting could bolster the wizard kingdoms into military style kingdoms. They already start with higher defense and gold production at capitals? I don’t see a wrong choice when selecting a kingdom.

[Senior Tactician]

Player skill obviously makes a big difference in practice, so you could have the kingdom least benefitted by the change versus the kingdom most benefitted by the change not actually reflected in the status results of the game due to a number of factors, including skill of the players and really just how the game unfolds.

My point was, for instance, lets say that at the beginning of the game, the RD and SO kingdoms are balanced, for different reasons (military vs magic).  Then you take one aspect of the game and make it even (or mostly even) between them (magic) then logically, the other aspect of the game is going to demonstrate the difference between the kingdoms.

[Senior Tactician]

I’m following this thread and I’m interested in this game., I was (just in my head) thinking the devout kingdoms, and specialty kingdoms UN PI could maybe hold their own against the military kingdoms?  With the special abilities, political, and the exclusive agent stuff.  I also think the companion type recruiting could bolster the wizard kingdoms into military style kingdoms. They already start with higher defense and gold production at capitals?   I don’t see a wrong choice when selecting a kingdom.

Actually you have a point here, since there are practically speaking, NO wizards, devout kingdoms, and those with the industrious trait, will be the ones more able to build good productions.  But unclemike will notice that most of hte devout kingdoms made my list, because generally speaking mage kingdoms are not devout, mostly its military kingdoms, but perhaps the AN should make my list...

[Strongwill]

Player skill obviously makes a big difference in practice, so you could have the kingdom least benefitted by the change versus the kingdom most benefitted by the change not actually reflected in the status results of the game due to a number of factors, including skill of the players and really just how the game unfolds.

My point was, for instance, lets say that at the beginning of the game, the RD and SO kingdoms are balanced, for different reasons (military vs magic).  Then you take one aspect of the game and make it even (or mostly even) between them (magic) then logically, the other aspect of the game is going to demonstrate the difference between the kingdoms.

Yeah, I agree with you.

[Wookie Panz]

Earthquake by a p 8 would do a lot in the early game.  It's been doubled.  Without looking it up I think it's 2200 per level without modification for group size or PC size.

[Lt Gisgo]

So is this thread for an actual game or is it just for pontificating about the merits of starting with a power 8 wizard? If it's such a detriment to certain kingdoms then just don't pick that kingdom. I thought that was the whole point of deciding the terms ahead of time.