Game 5644 Maximumus Dominus begins…

[Brekk]

BTW: remember that this is only a game. I don't hold grudges about people who attacked me, and I don't attack others based on history. We all want to have fun.

Yep, exactly right. Just a game.

And I'm just a noobie in this just a game. Such scandal! Attacking the new guy - and it ain't even Turn #7, yet! Well, somebody's gotta be the scoundrel. It was mighty nice of you to volunteer.

[Brekk]

Let's not jump on Windstar too much here, or you may end up losing an experienced and reoccurring player for someone who's just sampling the game. Besides, the Forgotten kingdom didn't lose that much anyway: 1 brigade and a couple of low-level wizards, of which he wouldn't have lost if referenced the rulebook (see attachment below or page 98 of rulebook).

NOTE TO SELF: A programmer's perspective of what constitutes "didn't lose that much, anyway" is quite a distinct and different thing from the player's perspective, and especially a new player's perspective, of the same event.

Low-level wizards are worth more to those who possess no high-level wizards, and particularly when said kingdom suffers from a dearth of gold. Wizards (some of them, anyway) can cast spells to create gold, something in sharp shortage here in the kingdom of The Forgotten in Epoch 5644.

To Maximus and Windstar, I had a rough start to my first game of Alamaze as well. I played a 1st Cycle Sorcerer in the Northern Mists battling the Barbarian (see Classic map: http://fallofromegame.com/alamazeorders/...lassic.gif). Back then the spell lists were printed on cool parchment paper, which was different from the normal kingdom turn paper, and I wanted to collect all of the spells in the game.

That has no bearing on my game. The laments of the damned from bygone epochs is no salve to the living, nor to the Forgotten.

I entered the game wanting to raise a single wizard to the highest level possible. That actually helped me against the Barbarian, I just needed to increase Zalkalzar from pwr-2 to pwr-5 for Demonic Visions (see attached Cycle 1 Sorcerer setup).

I've already had to cancel training orders to increase the levels of my wizards, due to a lack of gold. I'm running on fumes, here. It's not as though the economic system is geared to the new and unfamiliar. I don't yet possess proficiency with the economic system, which will always undermine early efforts by those who lack familiarity, which is a prerequisite for an Alamaze player to do well in the game.

That regional spell tore through the Barbarian forces, and I would have gained control of the Northern Mists in my first game if it weren't for his buddy, the Underworld, who tried to assassinate all of my wizards before turn 6. Having two gang up on you like that sucked, but some of his high-level agents died in the process as well.

Well, people in Alamaze frequently have buddies, right?

Later, when I played a 2nd Cycle Witchlord in the Mists, I made all of my wizards pwr-5 wraiths and immune from assassination (see attachment). I guess I was paranoid for quite a while after that initial game...

That's colorful. It's interesting. But it isn't motivating, nor does it aid me in overcoming my familiarity deficiency.

Well, anyway, even if you're attacked early on, hang in there. Alamaze is a decent game, and your next experience may be a better one. It was for me. Having pwr-5 wraiths that were immune to damage/assassinations was awesome for me.

Part of my "experience" is of the self-inflicted variety. My aim isn't to win. It isn't even to do particularly well. I'm just trying to put pieces of the Puzzle of Understanding together.

Also, one should never assume that a new player will necessarily ever have a "next experience." Alamaze is geared far more towards experienced players than to new players, from what I have seen and been able to discern, thus far. When was the last full multiplayer game of Alamaze that you had that was only new players playing in it? How long ago was that?

[Windstar]

Maximus, we have a problem here. Your 2FO started at GK, where your town is in my region. You are saying that it took you 4 turns to go from that location to one that was just 1 square away from it. I am not counting your first turn and your last turn--as you said you had difficulties in your first turn and I am not counting your last turn as well. In addition, I asked you if you wanted to tax your town two turns ago so that you would get added revenue for that since I was taking it with my emmies and not my army. And as far as morale and movin goes, you can move 4 squares with your group in the plains even with low morale. You just can't do a forced march is all.

[Strylian]

Let's not jump on Windstar too much here, or you may end up losing an experienced and reoccurring player for someone who's just sampling the game. Besides, the Forgotten kingdom didn't lose that much anyway: 1 brigade and a couple of low-level wizards, of which he wouldn't have lost if referenced the rulebook (see attachment below or page 98 of rulebook).

NOTE TO SELF: A programmer's perspective of what constitutes "didn't lose that much, anyway" is quite a distinct and different thing from the player's perspective, and especially a new player's perspective, of the same event.

Low-level wizards are worth more to those who possess no high-level wizards, and particularly when said kingdom suffers from a dearth of gold. Wizards (some of them, anyway) can cast spells to create gold, something in sharp shortage here in the kingdom of The Forgotten in Epoch 5644.

To Maximus and Windstar, I had a rough start to my first game of Alamaze as well. I played a 1st Cycle Sorcerer in the Northern Mists battling the Barbarian (see Classic map: http://fallofromegame.com/alamazeorders/...lassic.gif). Back then the spell lists were printed on cool parchment paper, which was different from the normal kingdom turn paper, and I wanted to collect all of the spells in the game.

That has no bearing on my game. The laments of the damned from bygone epochs is no salve to the living, nor to the Forgotten.

I entered the game wanting to raise a single wizard to the highest level possible. That actually helped me against the Barbarian, I just needed to increase Zalkalzar from pwr-2 to pwr-5 for Demonic Visions (see attached Cycle 1 Sorcerer setup).

I've already had to cancel training orders to increase the levels of my wizards, due to a lack of gold. I'm running on fumes, here. It's not as though the economic system is geared to the new and unfamiliar. I don't yet possess proficiency with the economic system, which will always undermine early efforts by those who lack familiarity, which is a prerequisite for an Alamaze player to do well in the game.

That regional spell tore through the Barbarian forces, and I would have gained control of the Northern Mists in my first game if it weren't for his buddy, the Underworld, who tried to assassinate all of my wizards before turn 6. Having two gang up on you like that sucked, but some of his high-level agents died in the process as well.

Well, people in Alamaze frequently have buddies, right?

Later, when I played a 2nd Cycle Witchlord in the Mists, I made all of my wizards pwr-5 wraiths and immune from assassination (see attachment). I guess I was paranoid for quite a while after that initial game...

That's colorful. It's interesting. But it isn't motivating, nor does it aid me in overcoming my familiarity deficiency.

Well, anyway, even if you're attacked early on, hang in there. Alamaze is a decent game, and your next experience may be a better one. It was for me. Having pwr-5 wraiths that were immune to damage/assassinations was awesome for me.

Part of my "experience" is of the self-inflicted variety. My aim isn't to win. It isn't even to do particularly well. I'm just trying to put pieces of the Puzzle of Understanding together.

Also, one should never assume that a new player will necessarily ever have a "next experience." Alamaze is geared far more towards experienced players than to new players, from what I have seen and been able to discern, thus far. When was the last full multiplayer game of Alamaze that you had that was only new players playing in it? How long ago was that?

One thing a new player has no way of knowing and that Maximas is experiencing now is just how brutal the first winter can be on your resources. You have to plan well. Which, if you have never played, is very difficult. In my first game of Alamaze online, I went three turns with no order processing because I was making a mistake on the order input. It helps to get a mentor to help you out.

As for the Lizards, those nasty little reptiles, I suggest you release a cloud of poisoned flies in their domain. That should take care of that problem.

[Brekk]

Maximus, we have a problem here. Your 2FO started at GK, where your town is in my region. You are saying that it took you 4 turns to go from that location to one that was just 1 square away from it. I am not counting your first turn and your last turn--as you said you had difficulties in your first turn and I am not counting your last turn as well. In addition, I asked you if you wanted to tax your town two turns ago so that you would get added revenue for that since I was taking it with my emmies and not my army. And as far as morale and movin goes, you can move 4 squares with your group in the plains even with low morale. You just can't do a forced march is all.

Yes, I have learned (the somewhat hard way) that morale can negatively impact the maximum distance that a group can move, that whole force march thing.

We likely have more than just one problem, here, Windstar2 - my chosen approach to trying to familiarize myself with this game's "features" being but one of them. After first experiencing the diminished movement, I think that I then just started deliberately trying to move less distance than was probably my due allotment. It's not as though I am out there looking for war. You might be, but that's you. You're an experienced player, after all. I'm still piddling around with the fog of war feature.

Playing a game to familiarize one's own self with what's what isn't going to yield a maximization of focus upon the movement of components, such as groups, troops, characters. etc..

I only recently issued a raise tax order, and I don't even know if that order has been processed, yet. not sure. Maybe I canceled it. Again, not sure. You're talking to a guy who suffers from a lack of certainty, one who is distracted by all manner of different things, both of the real world variety and of the in-game variety. You're focused upon the meat of a particular matter, whereas I'm still exploring and admiring various baubles of the game's design.

There is no concerted effort on my part, at this juncture in time, to go to war or to avoid it. I'm not reading messages every day, as far as forum postings that occur here on the Alamaze forum. Sometimes, I visit the forum, either to post, or to avail myself of various links at the top of the page, but not necessarily to read. And even when I do read, sometimes I latch onto certain things, but don't really focus on other things that get said. I'm not trying to overlook nor look past anyone in particular, just trying to absorb a lot of different things while being endlessly distracted. Not an ideal situation, certainly, but I was encouraged to join this game, while I was still very early into the solo tutorial.

[Brekk]

One thing a new player has no way of knowing and that Maximas is experiencing now is just how brutal the first winter can be on your resources. You have to plan well. Which, if you have never played, is very difficult. In my first game of Alamaze online, I went three turns with no order processing because I was making a mistake on the order input. It helps to get a mentor to help you out.

As for the Lizards, those nasty little reptiles, I suggest you release a cloud of poisoned flies in their domain. That should take care of that problem.

Yeah, buddy. I was skim reading over information about winter in the game, yesterday, I believe that it was. If your kingdom runs out of gold, can you go bankrupt? or will the game just not let you spend your kingdom out of existence?

As far as mentors go, I have one. Sometimes, I make use of him (Rellgar). He checked in on me, recently (perhaps because I had not written to him, recently).

I don't know anything about poisoned flies. My population of wizards has shrunk. The Forgotten kingdom doesn't really seem to be oriented towards having much in the way of mages at its disposal. I'm not really sure why I bothered with that adept in the kingdom customization phase. I tried creating something before Turn #4, and that failed, of course - which isn't exactly motivating or inspiring for a new player. One turn, you can't do something, but another turn, perhaps you can do it, after all. That yields an arbitrary feel. You can be powerful, but not just yet sort of feeling. I just shake my head at it and move on.

Alamaze takes an odd approach to trying to get new players addicted to what may well be some of its finer points. It's not so much flaws in game design as it is a lack of capitalization on yanking the player in, interest-wise. Forgotten was definitely an appropriate name for this kingdom that I am playing, because as a player, I feel forgotten (and not by the other players in the game, either). Maybe it's all an aim for "balance." I don't know. What I do know, though, is that six turns into this game, and descriptive terms that I would use to describe what I "feel" about this game, thus far, would include dull and bored. In fairness, though, I still suffer from a marked lack of familiarization and minimal interactions. Many, if not most options, yet, I haven't even attempted, as of yet, much experienced what they have to offer the player.

Also, sometimes, games require more than just a single dosage, in order for certain things to "click."

People advocate reading the rulebook and mentors, but not everyone naturally gravitates towards those specific kinds of inculcation mechanisms. There's not just one or two ways to learn to play a game, after all. Yes, some ways can be quicker than others, and some ways can invariably prove to be more effective than others (at certain things and in certain areas, anyway), but for many people, the learning process is a bit more complicated than that. Human beings "absorb" information and retain information in multiple different ways, and often times, it's through some combination of multiple different ways. It's not by accident that companies routinely employ documentation, testing, on the job training, and allowing employees to learn at different paces. Even though society has a dreadful tendency to inculcate children in schools the same way, every kid is different, though they share some similarities in common.

Where games are concerned, my current preferred method of learning new games tends to involve a lot of long, hard slogs. Can I miss things that way? Oh, sure. Absolutely. Me? I like to learn what a game "feels" like. That's not the same thing as just following a list of instructions or reading rules.

Sometimes, it is the player, himself, that is the "dulling force." You miss too much, or you miss certain things, and the game is never going to feel like it otherwise might. getting a better "feel" for the game can sometimes aid the learning process.

[Brekk]

Well, in a roundabout way, turn #7 proved to be an informative turn for me. Not a good turn, but an informative turn.

Using that tax order sure does make your pop centers hate you. So, now I'm down to just one pop center. My gut feeling tells me that this likely isn't an ideal situation.

All of my villages gone. My second town gone. Just my capital is left.

And on top of it all, the perpetual gold shortage. In the back of my mind, I am keenly aware that my kingdom started the game with extra gold, too, if I'm not mistaken.

1. Burn through the gold, and that's not good.

2. Fail to take your region early (or at all), and that isn't good, either.

3. Resort to increased taxation (or double taxation), and that's quite literally a disaster.

So, the question now becomes, how far behind can a kingdom fall, yet remain viable? Perhaps more importantly, how many new players could likely turn such a situation around? Granted, it's much better to avoid finding one's own self in a situation like this to begin with, but that said and the point conceded on, can new players reasonably be expected to be able to turn such a situation around? Or is by the end of Turn #7 and headed into Turn #8 simply too late to achieve such a feat?

Of course, advertising one's misfortune is likely to the advantage of other kingdoms, but I don't really care about that. Winning is all fine and dandy, but not losing, and not defeating one's own self, strikes me as substantially more important considerations - and especially if one is a noob to the game.

Information previously shared about the battle between the Lizard Men and my kingdom elicited no interest nor communication on the part of other players. That was interesting. The quiet that ensured did nothing to elevate the amount of interest that I take in this particular game. Boredom, as much as anything, and certainly far more than losing, can be a real interest killer.

So, now, I will try something else.

Tonight, after looking over my Turn #7 results, I find myself pondering at what point does a new player lose hope in their position? What, I ask myself, is key to the newcomer to Alamaze being able to maintain their interest? If they're doing well, or reasonably well, or they think that they're doing well, that alone might be sufficient.

But what if they're not? At what point do they transition, mentally, to an abandon ship mindset? Why not just drop the game, and start another? Or what if they embrace the "drop the game, but not start another" mindset, instead?

This is what I'm trying to wrap my mind around. It's better, I think, to experience dire situations in Alamaze, than to read about others experiencing them. The experience of bad times and disasters within the context of the game can sharper the mind and align one's focus far more so than reading this or reading that.

On average, how many games of multiplayer Alamaze do experience players consider to be necessary, for new players of Alamaze to cross beyond the Rubicon of hopelessness and despair and a feeling of weakness or failure, and transition into more of a feeling that if only they had done a couple of things different, they would still be in the running?

Economic considerations will bury a kingdom and its player. Increasing a king's influence is all fine and dandy, but if one can't issued the orders that one wants to issue due to economic poverty, a king's influence suddenly appears to be of secondary importance.

One area (of several) that I haven't spent much time or focus upon is Groups. Yes, I can read about them, and refine my understanding and enhance my knowledge of them that way. However, I like to just play with things. My opinion, at present, probably holds Groups in the least regard. I am not enamored of them - and they are central to the design of the game, itself. A much better understanding of them is imperative, for without that, one is basically screwed in a games of Alamaze. At present, Groups do not appeal to the player in me. They leave a strong distaste for them in my mouth. The game comes across to me, to the new player in me, as a good example of how to unnecessarily complicate a game that actually gets high scores from me on "flavor."

On the meta aspect of the game, where the players themselves are concerned, if I were to judge Alamaze, today, I would count it as a fairly quiet game. Modest attempts to poke and prod and goad are wasted effort. It's hard to find actual cold-blooded lizards, these days.

When a player chooses to drop out of a game of Alamaze mid-game, what happens? Do their holdings (pop centers, groups, troops, and characters) all revert to neutral status or to human (non-player) controlled?

And what if a player doesn't drop from the game, but chooses, instead, to inject a deliberate vacuum into the game? How do experienced players of the game usually react to that?

[DuPont]

BL-All: I am looking to buy food. I would be happy to trade 35k gold for 70k food.

BL-FO: Part of the trouble is that there is not private communication. I considered paying you for the locations of the artifacts that you start with, but with the type of communication in most games, trading is supposed to be public and then everybody else would know the locations, too. The LI is a bit far for me to jump on him, I'd have to leapfrog one or two kingdoms which would put me in a vulnerable situation.
If you drop, any towns you have will become 'Human' owned. Any artifacts will fall into the pop center your group is outside of. If in the wild, they will just go back and be randomly placed on the board.
I am not sure what all you have left in terms of groups, but you should have enough that if you combine troops together, you should at least be able to take villages in your region. Maybe towns after hitting a few of those and getting your morale back up. Any groups you are not moving, should be set to 'Winterize' so you won't have to pay and feed them fully.

[VballMichael]

Well, in a roundabout way, turn #7 proved to be an informative turn for me. Not a good turn, but an informative turn.

Using that tax order sure does make your pop centers hate you. So, now I'm down to just one pop center. My gut feeling tells me that this likely isn't an ideal situation.

All of my villages gone. My second town gone. Just my capital is left.

And on top of it all, the perpetual gold shortage. In the back of my mind, I am keenly aware that my kingdom started the game with extra gold, too, if I'm not mistaken.

1. Burn through the gold, and that's not good.

2. Fail to take your region early (or at all), and that isn't good, either.

3. Resort to increased taxation (or double taxation), and that's quite literally a disaster.

So, the question now becomes, how far behind can a kingdom fall, yet remain viable? Perhaps more importantly, how many new players could likely turn such a situation around? Granted, it's much better to avoid finding one's own self in a situation like this to begin with, but that said and the point conceded on, can new players reasonably be expected to be able to turn such a situation around? Or is by the end of Turn #7 and headed into Turn #8 simply too late to achieve such a feat?

Of course, advertising one's misfortune is likely to the advantage of other kingdoms, but I don't really care about that. Winning is all fine and dandy, but not losing, and not defeating one's own self, strikes me as substantially more important considerations - and especially if one is a noob to the game.

Information previously shared about the battle between the Lizard Men and my kingdom elicited no interest nor communication on the part of other players. That was interesting. The quiet that ensured did nothing to elevate the amount of interest that I take in this particular game. Boredom, as much as anything, and certainly far more than losing, can be a real interest killer.

So, now, I will try something else.

Tonight, after looking over my Turn #7 results, I find myself pondering at what point does a new player lose hope in their position? What, I ask myself, is key to the newcomer to Alamaze being able to maintain their interest? If they're doing well, or reasonably well, or they think that they're doing well, that alone might be sufficient.

But what if they're not? At what point do they transition, mentally, to an abandon ship mindset? Why not just drop the game, and start another? Or what if they embrace the "drop the game, but not start another" mindset, instead?

This is what I'm trying to wrap my mind around. It's better, I think, to experience dire situations in Alamaze, than to read about others experiencing them. The experience of bad times and disasters within the context of the game can sharper the mind and align one's focus far more so than reading this or reading that.

On average, how many games of multiplayer Alamaze do experience players consider to be necessary, for new players of Alamaze to cross beyond the Rubicon of hopelessness and despair and a feeling of weakness or failure, and transition into more of a feeling that if only they had done a couple of things different, they would still be in the running?

Economic considerations will bury a kingdom and its player. Increasing a king's influence is all fine and dandy, but if one can't issued the orders that one wants to issue due to economic poverty, a king's influence suddenly appears to be of secondary importance.

One area (of several) that I haven't spent much time or focus upon is Groups. Yes, I can read about them, and refine my understanding and enhance my knowledge of them that way. However, I like to just play with things. My opinion, at present, probably holds Groups in the least regard. I am not enamored of them - and they are central to the design of the game, itself. A much better understanding of them is imperative, for without that, one is basically screwed in a games of Alamaze. At present, Groups do not appeal to the player in me. They leave a strong distaste for them in my mouth. The game comes across to me, to the new player in me, as a good example of how to unnecessarily complicate a game that actually gets high scores from me on "flavor."

On the meta aspect of the game, where the players themselves are concerned, if I were to judge Alamaze, today, I would count it as a fairly quiet game. Modest attempts to poke and prod and goad are wasted effort. It's hard to find actual cold-blooded lizards, these days.

When a player chooses to drop out of a game of Alamaze mid-game, what happens? Do their holdings (pop centers, groups, troops, and characters) all revert to neutral status or to human (non-player) controlled?

And what if a player doesn't drop from the game, but chooses, instead, to inject a deliberate vacuum into the game? How do experienced players of the game usually react to that?

I may be senile but I thought I did comment on your behalf but then people jumped in to defend the neutering of a noob for made-up reasons like an artifact issue.

[uncledarkside2]

Well, in a roundabout way, turn #7 proved to be an informative turn for me. Not a good turn, but an informative turn.

Using that tax order sure does make your pop centers hate you. So, now I'm down to just one pop center. My gut feeling tells me that this likely isn't an ideal situation.

All of my villages gone. My second town gone. Just my capital is left.

And on top of it all, the perpetual gold shortage. In the back of my mind, I am keenly aware that my kingdom started the game with extra gold, too, if I'm not mistaken.

1. Burn through the gold, and that's not good.

2. Fail to take your region early (or at all), and that isn't good, either.

3. Resort to increased taxation (or double taxation), and that's quite literally a disaster.

So, the question now becomes, how far behind can a kingdom fall, yet remain viable? Perhaps more importantly, how many new players could likely turn such a situation around? Granted, it's much better to avoid finding one's own self in a situation like this to begin with, but that said and the point conceded on, can new players reasonably be expected to be able to turn such a situation around? Or is by the end of Turn #7 and headed into Turn #8 simply too late to achieve such a feat?

Of course, advertising one's misfortune is likely to the advantage of other kingdoms, but I don't really care about that. Winning is all fine and dandy, but not losing, and not defeating one's own self, strikes me as substantially more important considerations - and especially if one is a noob to the game.

Information previously shared about the battle between the Lizard Men and my kingdom elicited no interest nor communication on the part of other players. That was interesting. The quiet that ensured did nothing to elevate the amount of interest that I take in this particular game. Boredom, as much as anything, and certainly far more than losing, can be a real interest killer.

So, now, I will try something else.

Tonight, after looking over my Turn #7 results, I find myself pondering at what point does a new player lose hope in their position? What, I ask myself, is key to the newcomer to Alamaze being able to maintain their interest? If they're doing well, or reasonably well, or they think that they're doing well, that alone might be sufficient.

But what if they're not? At what point do they transition, mentally, to an abandon ship mindset? Why not just drop the game, and start another? Or what if they embrace the "drop the game, but not start another" mindset, instead?

This is what I'm trying to wrap my mind around. It's better, I think, to experience dire situations in Alamaze, than to read about others experiencing them. The experience of bad times and disasters within the context of the game can sharper the mind and align one's focus far more so than reading this or reading that.

On average, how many games of multiplayer Alamaze do experience players consider to be necessary, for new players of Alamaze to cross beyond the Rubicon of hopelessness and despair and a feeling of weakness or failure, and transition into more of a feeling that if only they had done a couple of things different, they would still be in the running?

Economic considerations will bury a kingdom and its player. Increasing a king's influence is all fine and dandy, but if one can't issued the orders that one wants to issue due to economic poverty, a king's influence suddenly appears to be of secondary importance.

One area (of several) that I haven't spent much time or focus upon is Groups. Yes, I can read about them, and refine my understanding and enhance my knowledge of them that way. However, I like to just play with things. My opinion, at present, probably holds Groups in the least regard. I am not enamored of them - and they are central to the design of the game, itself. A much better understanding of them is imperative, for without that, one is basically screwed in a games of Alamaze. At present, Groups do not appeal to the player in me. They leave a strong distaste for them in my mouth. The game comes across to me, to the new player in me, as a good example of how to unnecessarily complicate a game that actually gets high scores from me on "flavor."

On the meta aspect of the game, where the players themselves are concerned, if I were to judge Alamaze, today, I would count it as a fairly quiet game. Modest attempts to poke and prod and goad are wasted effort. It's hard to find actual cold-blooded lizards, these days.

When a player chooses to drop out of a game of Alamaze mid-game, what happens? Do their holdings (pop centers, groups, troops, and characters) all revert to neutral status or to human (non-player) controlled?

And what if a player doesn't drop from the game, but chooses, instead, to inject a deliberate vacuum into the game? How do experienced players of the game usually react to that?

I may be senile but I thought I did comment on your behalf but then people jumped in to defend the neutering of a noob for made-up reasons like an artifact issue.

I won my very first game, but not without the help of others losing.  Thanks again to those who made it happen.