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**HeadHoncho** · 11-03-2015, 07:57 PM

Question on the Demon Prince Regional Submission special ability to increase reaction level in a region. I had always assumed that ability cannot make the reaction level better than Tolerant in an enemy-controlled region, or better than Suspicious in an AN-controlled region.

I realize now that that was an assumption, and that one or the other "rule" will have to take precedence over the other.

Can you advise as to whether the DE special ability overrules the enemy declaration limits, or whether the latter still applies to the DE special ability? Thanks!

**VballMichael** · (This post was last modified: 11-03-2015, 10:08 PM by VballMichael.)

As the AN in an anon game, I have suffered mightily at the DE hands because of this ability. The rest of us are limited to Tolerant or Suspicious. It appears the DE is not.
I am not sure but I believe the DE was getting well above Suspicious in my game. Don't know if this is an accidental exploit, but it is crushing.

**Jumpingfist** · 11-03-2015, 09:56 PM

I always thought the DPs would be between suspicious and tolerants in an AN controlled region but he could not use his ability past friendly and then be knocked down for enemy/ally or natural enemy for the other emmies and groups. so a DP with full influence can knock any city neutral that is not a capital.

**HeadHoncho** · 11-03-2015, 10:05 PM

I had the same thought as you, JF, that the DE Prince special ability to be no worse than between Tolerant and Suspicious would help in some regions, but that the Demonic Submission ability still had to play by the enemy/natural enemy rules.

VBM's perspective (and my own emerging one) seems to be that assumption is incorrect, however. Which makes DE extremely powerful, and AN is really no match for it, in my opinion.

**Jumpingfist** · 11-03-2015, 10:11 PM

I agree with that if true AN has no real defense as that is his specialty regional control.

For 3k gold that is to strong for DE. I know it was not that way in clipper but do not know now. Kind of like DE being immune to scandal spell that popped up with the new platform

**HeadHoncho** · 11-03-2015, 10:12 PM

Agree.

11-03-2015, 11:46 PM

The DE special ability can increase your regional reaction to Friendly in any region even if controlled by your natural enemy. I know this from experience and there is nothing in the rules to indicate otherwise.

11-03-2015, 11:47 PM

I just read JFs last post. This ability was in place under Clipper also.

**Hawk_** · 11-04-2015, 03:20 AM

(11-03-2015, 11:47 PM)gkmetty Wrote: I just read JFs last post. This ability was in place under Clipper also.

I ditto this. We have had the DE on our team many times for this reason. Friendly is a big advantage. I did it in 182 to 170 an AN town that only worked with friendly.

**Jumpingfist** · 11-04-2015, 05:45 AM

I found the game I was thinking about and it was a 470 that got blocked at tolerant due to enemy declaration. Does not mean I do not think this is still basically a bug.

A note in the 470 is specific that you can not go above tolerant with an enemy or suspicious as a natural enemy.

The demon prince ability mentions you can not go above friendly but I think this is more just saying you can not make it any easier than friendly to take a PC. The ability does not mention it ignores ally/enemy or hint at it.

i really see no reason or logic on why the demon Princes should be allowed to ignor enemy. They get the benefit of ally but no henderance for enemy with the ability. If anything logic may say it would be even harder to raise the reaction level of an enemy kingdom since they are filling there controlled region of propaganda against the demon Prince.