Game 5644 Maximumus Dominus begins…

[Brekk]

Trying to catch up on this new game. 

Maximus, the order entry website shows when the next turn is due. On the Home page (see attachment duedate1.jpg), it informs the players that for Ready-enabled games (which means that turns are processed according to when the players are ready for it instead of going by a strict schedule), should reference the Ready Menu tab. On the Ready page (see attachment duedate2.jpg), it shows when the next turn is due.

If you're playing in a 48-hr game, all players get the FULL allotment of time, in this case 48 hours. The turn may be processed earlier if all the players hit the Ready button beforehand, but all players get the full 48 hrs if necessary between turns. Due to the nature of a ready-enabled game, that due date will shift depending upon how fast the players enter their actions for the turn, and desire for it to be processed.

We also offer strict scheduled games (as in noon every three days), but players like the faster returns of a ready-enabled game. That way, the game can go as fast as the players want, which means that you get more turns processed in a week compared to a strictly schedule game. More turns per dollar value.

BTW, if you ever need to, all players have access to their turns online. Go to the Home page and click on the appropriate button (see attachment turns.jpg).

I didn't even see that time stamp. You really should have that display on all of the pages of the game interface, especially on the Home page of it, and in big, bright, bold lettering.

I do know how the Ready button works, Mike. Heck, I remember it from the early days of Centurion. The time stamp is super critical. So, anyone who fails to see it/notice it, that's a bad development.

How I do in this game of Alamaze doesn't really matter. What's obvious to the experienced players, or to the programmer, is not necessarily obvious to the newcomer to Alamaze.

The Ready page of the game interface is the last place that one is likely to look. You go there, once you're done with everything else and ready for your turn orders to be processed.

Thanks for those screenshots, Mike.

[Brekk]

As for the errors that you're getting, are you clicking on the Verify Orders button at all? It should pick up some of your problems before they become an issue. Scroll the area to the end to see any possible errors with your actions for the turn.

Sometimes. Only sometimes.

[Brekk]

Maximus, so you chose the Forgotten kingdom. That's one of the newer kingdoms just added and is somewhat different than the rest.

Yeah, I know. That's part of the reason that I picked it. It wasn't actually the kingdom that appealed the most to me. I just wanted to see how it played.


[quote='unclemike' pid='83025' dateline='1675093574']
The Beholder is your best troop type and it affords your group five eye beam attacks. Those are in addition to the three wizard spells that you may cast during combat for a total of 8 total magical attacks compared to another kingdom being limited to just 3. So, a Beholder makes your group quite strong in that regard.

I tried "ordering/creating" one, but it's not been Turn #4, yet. Also, if memory serves me correctly, I can't obtain one of those (a new one, anyway), as long as my troop group is in a pop center. I wasted an order trying to do that, already.

On turn 0, you should have got the artifact locations and shortnames of the magical Key set. These are special in that a kingdom must first find and possess a key in order to access the corresponding Quest-classed artifact (the most powerful in the game). That's one of the special abilities of the Forgotten kingdom in that they should be able to acquire the best artifacts before anyone else. Each key is unique and only one exists per Quest-classed artifact, so grab all the keys before another kingdom may do so. [This is something that an experienced player would know, but not a beginner. The Ranger kingdom probably would have been a better choice to start with...]

Yeah, I know. I remember the artifacts. I have no clue what actual priorities for The Forgotten kingdom should be. Rellgar is giving me some advice. Trying to remember it all, when you are new to it, is a MAJOR issue.

More later but I'm outta time...

No problem.

[Brekk]

Maximus, I have a chart (spreadsheet) for use in calculating emmies success rates. If you give me your email, I will try and send it to you--be aware that I am not the best at this, so it might take a couple tries (unless you can help me out attaching a file to an email)

Usually, there's an option or button on your e-mail client software that makes it easy to attach a file to an e-mail that you are sending.

Send it to me at: playbymail.net@gmail.com

I hate spreadsheets, but I'll still look at it.

Without this spreadsheet, though, how is a new player supposed to figure out/calculate their emissaries' chances of success with a given mission?

[Windstar]

I just tried to send it. Let me know if you got it. If you did, I will send you more stuff that will make your experience a lot easier and better,

[Brekk]

I just tried to send it. Let me know if you got it. If you did, I will send you more stuff that will make your experience a lot easier and better,

I received it.

And being a spreadsheet, it just ends up looking like a mass of confusion to me. I don't know any more than I did before I received it.

That aside, I do appreciate you sending it to me.

[Zar@shand]

Maximus there is a emmie success rate chart on your unofficial Alamaze page. I don't know how accurate it is, someone else can judge that, but if so just adjust for you nations traits and you will have an idea.

[unclemike]

Maximus there is a emmie success rate chart on your unofficial Alamaze page. I don't know how accurate it is, someone else can judge that, but if so just adjust for you nations traits and you will have an idea.

The Help Guides page has that player aid (see attachment aids.jpg). In the Excel spreadsheet, select the appropriate tab along the bottom (see attachment emmytab.jpg).

Keep in mind though, those values are from the 3rd Cycle version of the game. Frost Lord never updated it for 4th Cycle, and I ran out of time in the last update to make a web page version of all of those values. For 4th Cycle (Maelstrom), each population center is a bit more difficult to acquire.

For example, with major cities, I usually send my best two emissaries along with an ambassador or governor. I use one high level emissary for rebel, the other for usurp (though rebelling is more important to pop the pc neutral and less likely to capture one of my emissaries), and the low-level emissary for stir unrest (which improves rebel/usurp chances).

Later in the game, first recon the pc with agent/raven spell/palantir scry or such to see if there any opposing emissaries there that may be issued the status quo command (making everything more difficult). If so, either magically sleep that guy (or kidnap/assassinate) or move in more emissaries for additional stir unrest (they combine for greater effect, but so does multiple status quo's).

So, try looking up your chances of success with Frost Lord's old spreadsheet until the web page version becomes available...

[Brekk]

Maximus there is a emmie success rate chart on your unofficial Alamaze page. I don't know how accurate it is, someone else can judge that, but if so just adjust for you nations traits and you will have an idea.

That chart is the same one as exists on this site. It deals with an emissary's percentage of their king's power, not how effective they are at a given mission.

When you suggest to "adjust for your nation's traits and you will have an idea," this assumes information and an outcome.

From the rulebook, The Forgotten:
Our political emissaries are at a disadvantage from the lack of engaging with others and have a -15% penalty when rebelling/usurping pop centers.

OK, so my emissaries are 15% less effective than typical emissaries. That doesn't tell me how effective that a typical emissary of other kingdoms is. Thus, I still have no idea. Which explains and accounts for the fact that I lost my Count, last turn, attempting a mission that he clearly wasn't cut out for.

For agents, the chart is much clearer on chances for success of a given mission type. Not so, where emissaries are concerned.

Now, I'm used to playing Hyborian War, a game where one never actually knows with any degree of certainty whether a given character's mission will be successful or not. Alamaze is a game where the numbers are, generally speaking, far and away known to a degree that one would never have an equivalent degree of knowledge, for a similar mission type. So, I am quite used to not having specific information in a game. In Alamaze, though, why are the percentages for agent missions so much more clear than the percentages for emissary missions?

So far, even after your suggestion, I am still without any idea of what emissary success rates are - for any kingdom, and not just for my own. 15% less than an unknown number remains an unknown number, when all is said and done. Do I need two Dukes? Three dukes? Two princes? Seven Barons? Honestly, I haven't a clue. This game is a test game, of sorts, for me, so how well or how poorly that my kingdom places is largely irrelevant. As a learning exercise, though, while this game is still early, yet, I presently don't count myself as impressed, where trying to learn about emissaries is concerned.

The rules state:

#320 – Rebel Popcenter

This order directs a specified political emissary to attempt to incite rebellion in the non-
neutral population center in which he is based. The chance of success is dependent upon
many factors, including: the emissary's rank, the regional reaction, the size of the
population center, the king's influence, any emissary's status quo efforts, capital status of
population center, and a small random chance modifier (+-10% so a Count might act as
either a Baron or Duke). If successful, the population center will immediately rebel and
declare its neutrality.

So, as a player who is new to the game, what does this passage from the rulebook tell me. One, that Alamaze is a game where you've got to do a bunch of math.  Ugh! Use that as a sales pitch, and see where you'll get. If one wants to quickly ascertain the chances of an emissary's success/failure for the rebelling of a pop center, the rulebook for the game certainly isn't the place to look. It also doesn't escape my notice that your response, Zar@shand, doesn't really give me an actual answer. Instead, you inject more doubt (by way of your assertion that you don't know how accurate it is), and you want me to use a chart that you, yourself, don't know how accurate that it is, in order for me to "adjust my nation's traits, and I will have an idea."

Say what?!?

One might think that, having failed to take the pop center in question with my emissaries last turn, I would now have a better idea of how many and of which type emissaries that I need, in order to rebel and usurp the pop center in question. Except, I don't. I'm still flying blind as a bat. Test game outcomes don't matter. They never matter. Yet, learning matters. Without learning, there is no grasping and understanding.

When the rules state, "The chance of success is dependent upon many factors, including," I don't take that to mean that all of the factors are necessarily included. For argument's sake, though, let's assume that the seven factors listed are all of the factors that are in question. The term "capital status" is only listed once in the 293 page rulebook for Alamaze - and that's in the #320 - Rebel Popcenter order. So, it isn't as though a new player to Alamaze can simply cross reference that particular phrase.

Capital. Each kingdom maintains one population center as its capital. The Ruler (King,
Queen, Regent) is always located at the capital. The capital is where reinforcements will
arrive and where prisoners are held. A capital cannot be usurped (Order# 330), rebelled
(Order# 320), or taken control of by means other than military attack. Capitals with a
magical Glyph of Concealment (or Secrecy trait) begin with a hidden capital that is difficult
to discover.

So, a capital cannot be usurped. Thus, we can now eliminate one of the seven factors listed under the #320 order. Why the rulebook doesn't simply tell one that in the passage for the #320 order, itself, is beyond me. Instead, the newcomer to Alamaze is left to conduct a treasure hunt for the information in question. Listing the capital status as a factor, instead of listing it as an impossibility, which it is, makes no sense to me. Listing it under the rubric of "chance of success" is wholly and utterly misleading, for there is no chance of success. 100% no chance of success. Absolute zero chance of success. There is failure, and only failure.

OK, so that's for population centers that are capitals. What about for other population centers, the ones that are not capitals? I still have no idea. And for a player who is brand spanking new to the game, not knowing has a tendency to induce apprehension. It will be a source of confusion. Neither apprehension nor confusion tend to instill confidence in players of a game.

Emissaries are a core, basic element of the game. They are not like, for example, flavor text. They possess functionality. They do something - several somethings. The fact that it's taken so long, and I still don't have any idea of an emissary's chances of success, is telling. If the veteran, experienced players of the game don't know, then how could one reasonably expect the newcomer to Alamaze to know? To understand a core, basic element of the game, should a newcomer to Alamaze have to build a Jenga tower of information?  Even if so, then how many turns should it require, before a newcomer to Alamaze grasp and understand the actual chances of an emissary succeeding on their given mission?

It isn't as though I am entirely unfamiliar with the whole concept of emissaries and how they work, in theory. After all, I first tried my hand at playing Fall of Rome, which also utilized the emissary concept, long ago - almost two decades ago.

How does one track down a particular piece of relevant information, and how long does it take to track down that particular piece of information? After all, the fate and the success of one's kingdom depends upon it.

How many turns does it take for a Governor to be transitioned into a Count? The reason that I ask is because losing a Count means that my kingdom now falls further behind. And since a Count wasn't up to the task to begin with, how many turns does it take to transition a Governor into a Duke, or into a Prince? Even then, there are no guarantees of success. On the one hand, how many characters do I wish to gamble with? On the other hand, if they are of no real use, then why not just gamble them?

If one is a veteran player of the game, a real enthusiast of Alamaze, then that's not the kind of thinking that one wants a newcomer to the game to have, and to get into their head. Such a mindset does not hint at longevity for and towards the game. That kind of thinking is counter-productive. You're never going to grow the player base for the game, when new players start pondering such things.

How quickly can a newcomer with no experience assimilate themselves into the game to a meaningful degree?

Not grasping the basics of the game, and having to "fight the rulebook," are not conducive to growing the player base of the game. Grasping the basics is imperative to success. Alamaze is not geared towards that.

[Brekk]

IMPRESSION

So, I'm sitting here, today, fiddling with my turn orders for the next turn, and what does it feel like? Drudgery.

Not excitement. Not anticipation. not the thrill of what the next turn shall bring. Just drudgery, as in something that is best to be avoided.

Hopefully, I'll make it long enough to later contrast this with whatever feelings that I feel, at that future time. I'll try to finish my turn orders, later.