Underworld

[admin]

Post your advice for playing this kingdom in this thread.

Thank you for contributing to the collective wisdom on how to best play this kingdom in Alamaze!

[Pine Needle]

I haven't played for awhile, but track the message board with fond memories because Alamaze is so fun.

The Underworld is one of the funnest kingdoms for sure. I once told someone the UN agents, at advanced levels, are like Jedi Knights- they can do almost anything, and the other kingdoms fear them, maybe a bit too much.

Here are some specifics- 1) raise agents' levels every turn you can. Training (standing order) multiple orders is mandatory. You can mix in some stealing or kidnapping but 2) your military is exceedingly weak, and your kingdom is weakest at the beginning of the game. So pissing someone off with stealing early might not be the best idea. You might not even go for an early region just to stay off the radar of the bruising kingdoms. Like some wizards, you could consider ditching the Kingdom brigades entirely to save gold. They suck. 3) raise the training cost for all agents. Yours are relatively cheap and the best so make them a precious commodity. 4) By early midgame, however, your agents are in the teens and you need to use them all every turn. Not using a max agent is a crime against humanity. 5) many kingdoms will pay for your services. Don't sell cheap. A max agent can steal an artifact or kill a wizard easier than many other means and other monarchs will pay a lot for that.

[Maximus Dominus]

QUESTION: When playing the Underworld, especially in the beginning, should the Underworld player be hiring new agents each turn, and if so, how many new agents should they be hiring each turn?


QUESTION: Also, how many different agents should an Underworld player being raising the level of, each turn - again, particularly at the beginning of the game?


QUESTION: Should the Underworld player focus more on obtaining and raising fanatics or agents over the course of the game?


QUESTION: What level should agents or fanatics be raised to, before the Underworld begin uses them for nefarious activities against other kingdoms?

[Maximus Dominus]

Training (standing order) multiple orders is mandatory.

QUESTION: How many standing orders can an Underworld player have in play, simultaneously?

[Jon Deaux]

QUESTION: When playing the Underworld, especially in the beginning, should the Underworld player be hiring new agents each turn, and if so, how many new agents should they be hiring each turn?

I've done it both ways.  I've played games where I hired only a couple, vs hiring one every other turn.  You just have to determine how heavily you are going to rely on agents to enjoy your game, because you will only ever get to issue 25 orders per turn.  The UN has good Wizard cost and five groups, so you can go a bunch of different ways.


QUESTION: Also, how many different agents should an Underworld player being raising the level of, each turn - again, particularly at the beginning of the game?

If I hire one, I raise it every turn.  Just think, if you hire an agent on turn 10, fast train to level 4 on turn 11, you still won't get him to level 15 until around turn 21, the game is half over.  Level 15 is a benchmark for me because you can steal with a 95% success rate.

QUESTION: Should the Underworld player focus more on obtaining and raising fanatics or agents over the course of the game?

Personally, I only use fanatics to counterespionage, the additional 10% chance to be caught, and possibly killed, is too much risk for me.

QUESTION: What level should agents or fanatics be raised to, before the Underworld begin uses them for nefarious activities against other kingdoms?

I only start sending them out a lot when they are at 95% chance of success 3% chance to get caught.  This way, you have some leeway in case of unexpected counterespionage.  PLAN on counterespionage as much as you can, losing a level 20+ agent is very disheartening.

[Maximus Dominus]

Advice for Underworld Players:

By using the #500 - Train to Higher Lever Order, your starting Level 6 agent can be raised to Level 9 by the end of Turn #3.

However, if you do not already have both a Bazaar (build it first) and a Thieves Guild (build it second) in the same pop center that your agent is located in, you will not be able to train your highest level agent above Level 9.

This information is not contained in the UN5684Setup.html file that you receive, when the game starts. By being aware of what's needed to raise your agents higher than Level 9, you can avoid a minimum two turn delay in training agents that reach Level 9 via the #500 order.

REMEMBER: That only one building may be constructed for a given population center in a given turn, per order #611 – Construct Building. So, you can't build a Bazaar and a Thieves Guild in the same pop center on the exact same turn.

NOTE: Of course, there is the issue to consider of whether you will have sufficient gold available to build both the Bazaar and the Thieves Guild, depending upon what other orders that you issue the first several turns. You will have to decide what your kingdom's actual priorities are.

[Brekk]

Advice for Underworld Players:

By using the #500 - Train to Higher Lever Order, your starting Level 6 agent can be raised to Level 9 by the end of Turn #3.

However, if you do not already have both a Bazaar (build it first) and a Thieves Guild (build it second) in the same pop center that your agent is located in, you will not be able to train your highest level agent above Level 9.

This information is not contained in the UN5684Setup.html file that you receive, when the game starts. By being aware of what's needed to raise your agents higher than Level 9, you can avoid a minimum two turn delay in training agents that reach Level 9 via the #500 order.

REMEMBER: That only one building may be constructed for a given population center in a given turn, per order #611 – Construct Building. So, you can't build a Bazaar and a Thieves Guild in the same pop center on the exact same turn.

NOTE: Of course, there is the issue to consider of whether you will have sufficient gold available to build both the Bazaar and the Thieves Guild, depending upon what other orders that you issue the first several turns. You will have to decide what your kingdom's actual priorities are.

You also have the option of taking the bazaar in kingdom setup and then turn 3->4 build the thieves guild.
I'm a huge fan of agents. Its maybe also a thought th eUN starts with a thieves guild something I need to consider...

[Jon Deaux]

Actually yeah, the UN should start with a thieves guild in its capitol.  I mean, they really f---ed the UN when they changed counterespionage to come before early kindnap, it's the least we could do in compensation.

Oh man, this one time, in a confederation game I early kidnapped like 5 guys from Dupont on one turn, and I also slept like 9 more guys to early kidnap next turn, it was awesome.

[Maximus Dominus]

You also have the option of taking the bazaar in kingdom setup and then turn 3->4 build the thieves guild.

Yes, well, what does the UN5684Setup.html say about bazaars? Nothing - just as it says nothing about Thieves Guild.

Take me out of the picture, and insert any random newcomer to Alamaze. That players have options does not mean that players, particularly newcomers, will necessarily know what they are, or which ones are more important than others. In my mind, bazaars are more akin to marketplaces, and hence, economics, than intrigue (though, certainly, pickpockets are something that are associated with bazaars).

The big challenge for Alamaze is, I think, two-fold:
1. To attract a sizable amount of new players to the game

. . .and. . .

2. To streamline the process of getting them up and running at a high level with minimal obstacles and impediments.

The balance (or lack thereof) between the respective 32 different kingdoms that players can choose to play from is not something that I can stuff into my head and spit out the answers on. But some of the obstacles and impediments can certainly be identified and improved upon. A lack of awareness on the player's part isn't a balance issue, per se. Rather, it is an awareness issue, as in the lack thereof.

Since neither the Bazaar nor the Thieves Guild are mentioned on the UN5684Setup.html set-up file for the Underworld player, they might not grasp that they need to look those two buildings up in the rulebook, for further clarification.

Neither the Bazaar nor the Thieves Guild are buildings unique to the Underworld position. Which, in and of itself is fine, if constructing buildings is to be the order of the day. As a current Underworld player, I believe that future Underworld players may well find advice about being aware of the need to construct both a Bazaar and a Thieves Guild to be an item of critical importance (else, the Underworld player runs the risk of falling behind in their agent development, and agents are at the heart of the Underworld kingdom and its greatest advantages.

Just as gaining new players requires an increase in awareness among the uninitiated, likewise, new players becoming excellent Underworld players also requires an increase in awareness.

[Wookie Panz]

You also have the option of taking the bazaar in kingdom setup and then turn 3->4 build the thieves guild.

Yes, well, what does the UN5684Setup.html say about bazaars? Nothing - just as it says nothing about Thieves Guild.

Take me out of the picture, and insert any random newcomer to Alamaze. That players have options does not mean that players, particularly newcomers, will necessarily know what they are, or which ones are more important than others. In my mind, bazaars are more akin to marketplaces, and hence, economics, than intrigue (though, certainly, pickpockets are something that are associated with bazaars).

The big challenge for Alamaze is, I think, two-fold:
1. To attract a sizable amount of new players to the game

. . .and. . .

2. To streamline the process of getting them up and running at a high level with minimal obstacles and impediments.

The balance (or lack thereof) between the respective 32 different kingdoms that players can choose to play from is not something that I can stuff into my head and spit out the answers on. But some of the obstacles and impediments can certainly be identified and improved upon. A lack of awareness on the player's part isn't a balance issue, per se. Rather, it is an awareness issue, as in the lack thereof.

Since neither the Bazaar nor the Thieves Guild are mentioned on the UN5684Setup.html set-up file for the Underworld player, they might not grasp that they need to look those two buildings up in the rulebook, for further clarification.

Neither the Bazaar nor the Thieves Guild are buildings unique to the Underworld position. Which, in and of itself is fine, if constructing buildings is to be the order of the day. As a current Underworld player, I believe that future Underworld players may well find advice about being aware of the need to construct both a Bazaar and a Thieves Guild to be an item of critical importance (else, the Underworld player runs the risk of falling behind in their agent development, and agents are at the heart of the Underworld kingdom and its greatest advantages.

Just as gaining new players requires an increase in awareness among the uninitiated, likewise, new players becoming excellent Underworld players also requires an increase in awareness.

Back in third cycle and maybe more recently the Underworld was described as a kingdom that was not recommended for new players.
It may be the single most difficult kingdom to play.
Once you get comfortable with more "normal" kingdoms the U.N. is lots of fun.  They rarely win but creating havoc can be a blast