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**DuPont** · 02-18-2015, 06:24 AM

The most obvious fix of this would be to make declaration status only count for SPs if it was done five or six turns before. I was one of the four and went along with it because I thought everybody was doing it but it made me feel a bit silly.

**Jumpingfist** · 02-18-2015, 06:40 AM

(02-18-2015, 06:24 AM)DuPont Wrote: The most obvious fix of this would be to make declaration status only count for SPs if it was done five or six turns before. I was one of the four and went along with it because I thought everybody was doing it but it made me feel a bit silly.

Perhaps as of the last status update.

**Cloud** · 02-18-2015, 08:02 AM

Finally have a moment to post more on this topic.

I do not like this mechanic. I agree with DuPont, it is silly. I understand the instinct to award Status Points for acquiring enemies, but this practice of last minute flipping in order to manipulate the final Status Points is not at all in that spirit. I support any effort to stop or minimize it. That said, I'm not inclined to eschew a practice that is allowed and others are using. I had a game where the opposing alliance issued 16 such declarations on the final turn. If it is a thing that is in-bounds, I will make use of it. I'd rather do it and be the only one than to not do it and be the only one. Every time.

As for what's to be done about it -

I don't think any of the suggestions in this thread are foolproof against this kind of meta-gaming. The only true fix is to eliminate the Status Point effects on declarations altogether. Ally/Enemy declarations have an in-game purpose. Let that be the end of it. Last minute flipping isn't the only weirdness caused by this either. In this game being discussed (150) I never declared anyone my ally. I rarely ever declare allies. Basically, only if there is an in-game mechanic involved (such as regional spell or gifting) will I ever do it. Why would I, when it is a penalty? I have collected thousands of Status Points from blanket enemy declarations in Anon games issued by Kingdoms I never interacted with. All of this goes away if you just eliminate the SPs from the equation. I just don't see a better way.

**unclemike** · 02-18-2015, 12:42 PM

Just a quick note here for those who are posting on this thread.

Back on Dec 10 (last year), I mentioned that the behavior of some players that issued frivolous enemy/ally declarations at the end of the game is similar to unsportsmanlike conduct (c.f. my post in game 143 Valhalla). I was labeled a loser for bringing up the subject back then so now I'm glad that some are coming around to share my opinion. The solution is to simply don't award any points for such declarations and this issue goes away.

**Hawk_** · 02-18-2015, 01:56 PM

(02-18-2015, 12:42 PM)unclemike Wrote: Just a quick note here for those who are posting on this thread.

Back on Dec 10 (last year), I mentioned that the behavior of some players that issued frivolous enemy/ally declarations at the end of the game is similar to unsportsmanlike conduct (c.f. my post in game 143 Valhalla). I was labeled a loser for bringing up the subject back then so now I'm glad that some are coming around to share my opinion. The solution is to simply don't award any points for such declarations and this issue goes away.

I agree this is a problem that should be dealt with. It detracts from the rest of the game and the intent of the status point system.

02-18-2015, 02:52 PM

(TR) Actually JF you were in 6th place, Victor's turn had the final tally. Not that I disagree this should be disallowed but it didn't materially affect the podium finishes as you can clearly see.

GAME END STATUS POINTS
PLACE KINGDOM PLAYER RESULTS-30 GRAND TOTAL
1 DE Cloud 17650 20952
2 TR Acererak 10690 14274
3 EL Lord Thanatos 9025 12456
4 WI DuPont 8690 10815
5 GN Yellowbeard 6795 9668
6 RD Jumpingfist 3875 7345
7 BL STILLGARD 3500 5244
8 DA Rogal 2600 4525
9 DW Kat Ra 1800 3675
11 SO The Gray Mouser 1400 1725

**Jumpingfist** · 02-18-2015, 03:08 PM

I already knew where I finish I did not complain about that and it did effect ranking the EL would have been been 2nd on the podium.

02-18-2015, 03:14 PM

I guess you edited it but I saw where you were saying it prevented you on the podium this morning. Anyway- you're not correct on the EL as on turn 29 the only ally declaration I had was from the Gnome. Thus the swing for the Troll was only 1,600 pints and I still would have finished 2nd by 65 points.

Honestly, I don't think anyone disagrees with you but you're coming across to me as a lot of sour grapes. You lost this game fair and square (and convincingly) so act like you've been there before.

**Drogo** · (This post was last modified: 02-18-2015, 03:33 PM by Drogo.)

If this cannot be easily or quickly fixed I think it would help some if we all agree not to do this going forward. It really is a bit unsportsmanlike I think and not in keeping with the contest of the game. We're all big boys.

Let's just all not do it to start Smile

**Cloud** · (This post was last modified: 02-18-2015, 04:48 PM by Cloud.)

Naw, Acererak, I'm pretty sure you're thinking of LT or maybe Airborne. Jumpingfist never said anything about his placing that I saw. Also, if you'll recall, I actually asked WI to declare you ally like 4 turns before the end to avoid you getting caught in his regionals. Of course, that situation didn't come up again in the few remaining turns so you never got anything out of it, but technically you did clear enough points from the sillyness to bump him. But no need to get defensive - and I don't think sour grapes is the right word for this discussion. No one is actually crying foul about this game, just the game mechanic in question. In game 157 that ended on Monday, Jumpingfist declared LT enemy on the final turn which caused him to bump AirborneRanger down from 4th to 5th, so they are not claiming purity on the issue. Trust me, they know the way the game is played. They'd just rather this wasn't a thing and I agree.