NON-COORDINATION: the true meaning of anonymous

[HeadHoncho]

Even though 2nd Cycle is supposed to be frozen, it sounds like something needs to be done programmatically to help settle everyone's nerves a bit. Some people are actually quitting because of unfair play in team/anonymous games so it may be a good idea to do something like the above in the code.

I think it's important that, to the extent that you and Rick decide to do certain things, you should be doing it based on actual facts and reality.  And so while I can understand why you might think the team game dynamics are a cause of people leaving, I would urge you to focus on what has actually been said.

We've had two high-profile departures in the last couple of days, Airborne Ranger (Zim) and JumpingFist.

Zim, responding to Stromguard's hypothesis that he was dropping due to the team game dynamics: "It was not this game, and if Ry VOr wil send you the turn info I have no problem, I have paid up until end of month so turns should be free for you. Sorry, fed up with certain people, not our game though, you guys were great and game was fun and going our way." (emphasis added)

JF: "I will be submitting my last order Friday. I really enjoyed being part of this community but in the end I have different views of being a custom than what Rick feels we are entitled."

Clearly, the reasons for their departures do not relate significantly to team game dynamics.

As for Zim's teammates, who decided to drop their team game after Zim dropped, their reason as cited by Stromguard is, "Thank you for the information. Kronin and I have discussed, please drop both Kronin and Stromguard from #175. We are not "rage quitting" here, just impractical to continue, as the missed turn resulted in a "surprise attack" for 95% of Army Group as well as an interrupted siege due to no order at a critical turning point in this game. 3v6 is tough enough, but 2v6 is even harder."

Clearly, they are dropping that game because they could not get a standby fast enough, which resulted in a key missed turn.  Re-running the turn might have kept them, but there appeared to be an unwillingness or inability by management.  Now, on top of that, they (like me) aren't interested in more Magic games without the additional non-coordination rules I drafted a while back, but those are player-enforced and don't require coding changes.

Finally, we have JF's teammates in a Magic game about to drop, due to the following, according to JF's teammate, Imperial Tark: "This will pretty much doom our team (unless a veteran wants to jump in as WI after Friday's turn processes) OR we just restart the thing with a new team captain and redraft. The RA-WA swap and lack of anonymity created a bad start from the get go. Frustrating all the way around."

Nothing at all to do with team game dynamics.  Just frustration at the lack of an experienced captain plus the totally botched way the setup was handled.

Again, all of this discussion on team game dynamics is a bit of a sidelight.  The real issue is frustrations with individual people and management, refusal or inability to re-run a critical turn, and dissatisfaction on losing an experienced teammate plus the initial setup debacle.

Finally, I will add that although I'm not starting any new games primarily due to happy personal reasons right now, even if I had the time, I would probably hold off myself due to my own dissatisfaction with the way Rick (not you, UM) has been handling customer service recently.

I hope you and Rick will take the right messages from all of this recent unpleasantness, rather than assuming the reasons are something completely other than the actual reasons.  That would be as bad as, say, seeing the vast majority of your customer base express a desire for 2/week turns and instead hearing a couple of voices that prefer 4/4/6 and deciding that somehow equals a majority, due to confirmation bias.

[unclemike]

Sorry to hear about all the drops because 3rd Cycle is just around the corner. Also a new online order entry system is in the works where players no longer type in their orders but select their actions from a nice looking website. Hate to be doing all of this work, 7 days a week for the past 2 months, for nothing -- how about take a minute to relax and look forward to what's coming up in the next month or so...

[Lord Diamond]

Sorry to hear about all the drops because 3rd Cycle is just around the corner. Also a new online order entry system is in the works where players no longer type in their orders but select their actions from a nice looking website. Hate to be doing all of this work, 7 days a week for the past 2 months, for nothing -- how about take a minute to relax and look forward to what's coming up in the next month or so...

I, for one, am very excited about 3rd Cycle! Major changes and very, very, cool.

This is the first I've heard about the new order entry. How freaking awesome is that?

Please don't lose heart. A few of the players are upset, but that often passes. Most of us just want to play and have fun.

[DuPont]

I really don't understand all the drama because I don't seem to be in any of the games where it's happening. I am surprised to see that one or two things I regularly do in anonymous are considered bad form. I honestly thought the point of anonymous was to prevent knowing who was playing what position and to make it near impossible to organize gang-bangs. But I never thought that the point was for positions to make no attempt to coordinate with each other. Say you start a shared region like 9 - if you are the RA or SO, I don't see why you can't declare the other one an ally to indicate that you'd rather share the region than fight over it. Without that, I think those positions starting in a shared region would be at a real disadvantage. Same with HC orders to help out somebody. I can't say I've ever put a message in an emissary name (well, I have but it's usually agents with polite versions of 'fuck you' rather than 'ElPeace?'). I do think going after the leader is a legit strategy. I also think revenge attacks - of which I do a lot of - are within bounds. Do others not agree? I've always said that if you attack me, I'll drag you down with me - are people angry at me over this tactic? That wasn't my intention. I never, ever know who is playing what in anonymous. Some manage to guess based on playing style - if I really wanted to, I might be able to figure it out sometimes, but I don't want to know.
I'm sorry to see people quitting - JF in particular. I hope you guys stay or come back soon.

[Hawk_]

I really don't understand all the drama because I don't seem to be in any of the games where it's happening. I am surprised to see that one or two things I regularly do in anonymous are considered bad form. I honestly thought the point of anonymous was to prevent knowing who was playing what position and to make it near impossible to organize gang-bangs. But I never thought that the point was for positions to make no attempt to coordinate with each other. Say you start a shared region like 9 - if you are the RA or SO, I don't see why you can't declare the other one an ally to indicate that you'd rather share the region than fight over it. Without that, I think those positions starting in a shared region would be at a real disadvantage. Same with HC orders to help out somebody. I can't say I've ever put a message in an emissary name (well, I have but it's usually agents with polite versions of 'fuck you' rather than 'ElPeace?'). I do think going after the leader is a legit strategy. I also think revenge attacks - of which I do a lot of - are within bounds. Do others not agree? I've always said that if you attack me, I'll drag you down with me - are people angry at me over this tactic? That wasn't my intention. I never, ever know who is playing what in anonymous. Some manage to guess based on playing style - if I really wanted to, I might be able to figure it out sometimes, but I don't want to know.
I'm sorry to see people quitting - JF in particular. I hope you guys stay or come back soon.

IMO, the map doesn't really lend itself to a balanced 4 way split no matter how we cut it up.  I see the ability of kingdoms to declare allies and interact within game rules as a way to rebalance the game and prevent a victory when one team takes the lead. 

It also is useful when you end up sharing your region with another kingdom to signal your intentions to him.

[Jumpingfist]

Not that it matters a lot I fully agree with DuPont. See now that was not to hard .

I think you guys are trying to change some rules based on a few and need to look at the ramifications of making those changes. I was in both games and really thought they were good games until all the complaining and frankly untruths came out. I have in other games been on the other side of the big gang bangs and other than the gloating about beating me does not both me that much.

As HH said I in no way quit over one game and mine and Airbornes leaving are two seperate issues that just happened around the same time.

[Drogo]

JF is part of the backbone of this community and hands down the best resource for newer players. Got to be a way to keep him.

How about I serve as your designated representative in all dealing with management?

[Lord Diamond]

My problem was the AN sending the TR food and gold. Other than that, I am okay with declaring allies. I'd actually like to redo the in-game message system to remove any chance of typing in text.

[HeadHoncho]

I see a clear distinction (thanks to a forum discussion with Canticar, who changed my mind on this) between basic individual anonymous games, and Warlords/Magic games where it is a four-side slugfest where everyone is or ought to be opposed to one another. Remember, the reason we went from five-team to four-team Magic games is because everyone hated the three-on-two dynamic.

Having teams coordinate is no better. Again, no one is suggesting you can't or shouldn't gang up on the leading team, but heaping on coordination -- even informal ways like LT describes -- is just a bit too much for me personally.

Finally, even though the territory split is never going to be perfect in Warlords/Magic, that isn't a reason to coordinate, that is just the importance of careful draft strategy, and adapting if things don't go your way early on.

Again, no one is suggesting a coded fix. But there are enough of us who feel strongly enough about the coordination issue in Warlords/Magic games that we won't play in them without some additional ground rules.

It's a free market, and if people don't want to play with those additional ground rules, that's their prerogative. It will probably come down to who feels more strongly about it, balanced against the desire to start a game more quickly in those formats.

[Frost Lord]

Sorry to hear about all the drops because 3rd Cycle is just around the corner. Also a new online order entry system is in the works where players no longer type in their orders but select their actions from a nice looking website. Hate to be doing all of this work, 7 days a week for the past 2 months, for nothing -- how about take a minute to relax and look forward to what's coming up in the next month or so...

UM:  This sounds ABSOLUTELY AWESOME...!  I am glad that you are taking that exquisite tool to the next level.  I have some suggestions (both from a player as well as a technical point of view) if you are interested.  Either way, I am very glad that you are taking interest in making it better.  Thank you.