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**Hawk_** · 08-15-2016, 09:28 PM

I have lost a number of emmisaries in different games because somebody besides me attacked a capitol of a kingdom which then shifted to the location my emmy was at.

I think the 330 should fail but the newly relocated capitol should not cause the emmisary to be imprisoned that turn.

After that turn a 330 order can imprison the emmy.

Anybody agree/disagree?

**Atuan** · 08-16-2016, 05:52 PM

it is a fun risk you run. I am not saying I enjoy it either and I can see your point. I happen to have a bigger beef with Sanctuaries.

**Jumpingfist** · 08-16-2016, 06:31 PM

If it is flat out not possible it should not be done. The emissary should decide against the action and report back saying as much and why. This is an area that upsets players and really does not need to.

I would even extend this to agents that realize they are up against to much CE. If they have less than a 3% chance to Succeed they should also turn back and let the king know why. I get the cat and mouse game but it is just another item.

**Ry Vor** · 08-16-2016, 09:44 PM

(08-16-2016, 06:31 PM)Jumpingfist Wrote: If it is flat out not possible it should not be done. The emissary should decide against the action and report back saying as much and why. This is an area that upsets players and really does not need to.

I would even extend this to agents that realize they are up against to much CE. If they have less than a 3% chance to Succeed they should also turn back and let the king know why. I get the cat and mouse game but it is just another item.

I think both are pretty good points, although this is the first time in 30 years I've heard them. We also have that touchy subject of changing rules during the game, so maybe with the next release.

What's the issue with sanctuaries?

**Atuan** · 08-16-2016, 09:52 PM

How do I kill someone that has one?

I cannot take all of their PCs to put them out. If I take all of their emissaries, they can create a new one the same turn right? I cannot attack the sanctuary and as such there is no way to beat someone that has one unless I am the UN and have access to early kidnaps. Or am I missing something on them?

**Ry Vor** · 08-16-2016, 11:36 PM

(08-16-2016, 09:52 PM)Atuan Wrote: How do I kill someone that has one?

I cannot take all of their PCs to put them out. If I take all of their emissaries, they can create a new one the same turn right? I cannot attack the sanctuary and as such there is no way to beat someone that has one unless I am the UN and have access to early kidnaps. Or am I missing something on them?

Thanks for the explanation. You are relatively new, there was a long-lived discussion on whether a position should be eliminated when it had no PC, and the players kind of wanted this solution. I have made some compromises.

**Atuan** · 08-16-2016, 11:48 PM

I understand, but am I wrong in my belief that I cannot eliminate a kingdom with a sanctuary? Or is there some time limit on how long a kingdom can run without having a capital before being eliminated?

**Ry Vor** · 08-17-2016, 12:06 AM

(08-16-2016, 11:48 PM)Atuan Wrote: I understand, but am I wrong in my belief that I cannot eliminate a kingdom with a sanctuary? Or is there some time limit on how long a kingdom can run without having a capital before being eliminated?

Well, honestly, I've never had a sanctuary, so I don't know all the specifics of what is in the code. Again, this is something I kind of went along with rather than drove. I think you are right it is mainly an issue about a stubborn Underworld player with allies. Otherwise, I recommend players sign up for a new game despite the Valhalla recognition for Iron Willed (the only one I have).

I am proud of our community for not having early drops, but if it is turn 12 and things have gone badly, I'd rather they had fun in a new game and implement their learnings as a more experienced player.

**DuPont** · 08-18-2016, 06:16 PM

I don't agree. I love sanctuaries. Why can't I have fun playing as a guerrilla if I like doing that? It's certainly something that has happened historically. King David was reduced to a cave in the hills yet he came back to regain his kingdom and become one of the most well-known kings in history. I'm very happy with the rule and as far as I can tell, there is no time limit on sanctuaries. I would be very opposed to getting rid of them.

**unclemike** · 08-18-2016, 07:07 PM

Sanctuaries don't have a time limit nor do they generate food/gold (and you cannot raise a sanctuary's stats with magic, council, artifact, etc.). So if you take out all of your opponent's pc's and you discover where his sanctuary is (your group may travel over one and get a notice or have your wizard cast locate character spell on one of his emissaries), you can sleep, kidnap, or assassinate his emissaries until none is left (don't bother with agents/priestesses/fools since they can't become regent to keep alive). Since sanctuaries don't generate food/gold, their kingdom will eventually run out of funds and won't be able to create any new emissaries to keep alive as you kill them off. If it's a wizard kingdom, kill off his wizards first since they can generate food/gold each turn or summon undead troops which don't require food/gold and conquer pc's to keep alive.