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**Drogo** · 03-15-2017, 05:11 PM

Draft is complete. Just waiting on final kingdom choices for 2 players and will send to signup.

It was decided Chivalry bonus for last kingdom chosen for team who got last choice for draft order, yes?

**IMPERIAL_TARK** · 03-15-2017, 05:55 PM

(03-15-2017, 05:11 PM)Drogo Wrote: Draft is complete. Just waiting on final kingdom choices for 2 players and will send to signup.

It was decided Chivalry bonus for last kingdom chosen for team who got last choice for draft order, yes?

Yes

**Netstrider** · 03-15-2017, 06:18 PM

I don't agree that there is some issue to be compensated for. Getting your last choice of draft positions isn't supposed to be a big deal because all draft positions have pluses and minuses. Reviewing:

A: 1+5+12 (18)
B: 2+8+10 (20)
C: 3+6+11 (20)
D: 4+7+9 (20)

A has solid advantages: Early choices will nab you 2 of the best kingdoms available and probably well situated geographically, i.e. RD + IL?
D has serious advantages for picking based on geography. Done well, should have regions focused around one area.
B/C I can see how these would be less attractive. But still 1st/2nd/3rd best mage kingdom depending on whether A takes D2. Then you are looking at pick 6/8 to get special kingdom or military. But the reality is there will be plenty of options with R5/R8/R10 almost certainly open for picks 6 & 8. In the last draft, these regions were indeed open. B then has a chance with only one intervening pick to consolidate his position geographically or the best remaining kingdom. C having the most challenges at this point, with 5 intervening picks and having to choose from the "2 worst" regions available. That will likely be a non-adjacent R7/R9/R10. But they also have the option of going with D1 which is a pretty strong pick in Warlords.

So, do I think the player with DU/CI/UN or EL/NE/UN (hypothetically speaking) needs a bonus? Uh, no.

But in order to get the game started and have consensus it's fine to give the one kingdom chivalry.

In future warlords games, I'd like to go back to the no chivalry, no quarter, just play the game rule.

Good luck everyone!

**IMPERIAL_TARK** · 03-15-2017, 06:38 PM

(03-15-2017, 06:18 PM)Netstrider Wrote: I don't agree that there is some issue to be compensated for. Getting your last choice of draft positions isn't supposed to be a big deal because all draft positions have pluses and minuses. Reviewing:

A: 1+5+12 (18)
B: 2+8+10 (20)
C: 3+6+11 (20)
D: 4+7+9 (20)

A has solid advantages: Early choices will nab you 2 of the best kingdoms available and probably well situated geographically, i.e. RD + IL?
D has serious advantages for picking based on geography. Done well, should have regions focused around one area.
B/C I can see how these would be less attractive. But still 1st/2nd/3rd best mage kingdom depending on whether A takes D2. Then you are looking at pick 6/8 to get special kingdom or military. But the reality is there will be plenty of options with R5/R8/R10 almost certainly open for picks 6 & 8. In the last draft, these regions were indeed open. B then has a chance with only one intervening pick to consolidate his position geographically or the best remaining kingdom. C having the most challenges at this point, with 5 intervening picks and having to choose from the "2 worst" regions available. That will likely be a non-adjacent R7/R9/R10. But they also have the option of going with D1 which is a pretty strong pick in Warlords.

So, do I think the player with DU/CI/UN or EL/NE/UN (hypothetically speaking) needs a bonus? Uh, no.

But in order to get the game started and have consensus it's fine to give the one kingdom chivalry.

In future warlords games, I'd like to go back to the no chivalry, no quarter, just play the game rule.

Good luck everyone!

Agreed!

**Jumpingfist** · 03-15-2017, 07:03 PM

you want no chivalry, no quarter yet you have a boat load of house rules lets play nice. Putting hypotheticals is silly. I am sure there are just as many bad team combo.
To me the chivalry bonus is a way to give a bit for getting screwed out of your preferences. You are only getting a bonus if it was your 4th selection. Meaning you lost 2 or 3 tie breakers to be put in that spot. You got hosed and here is s little something. Same idea why picking 11th or 12th in a single player game. You do not always get the worst kingdom but you had little choice so you get a bonus. Also like single player if the draft position are random then I would say no chivalry bonus every one got what they got better luck next time.

**JonDoe** · 03-15-2017, 07:19 PM

I got the my 4th choice. Ry Vor can remove my chivalry bonus so there is no bitching when they take a loss.

Random choices please next time.

**Drogo** · 03-15-2017, 07:47 PM

Sent to signup. Not sure where you all want to land regarding Chivalry so I asked that signup check the latest on this thread on that.

Good luck all!

**IMPERIAL_TARK** · 03-15-2017, 08:55 PM

Here are the house rules since we will hopefully kick off soon.

1) Ally declarations, trades, and gifts are only allowed between your own three Kingdoms
2) No HC issues are allowed to help another player's Kingdoms
3) All HC issues must be by SECRET ballot, and if a player accidentally proposes an open ballot issue, all players must abstain on that vote (i.e., it fails)
4) No drops before T18 (i.e., orders issued through T18)
5) Notify everyone as soon as you decide to drop, rather than allowing the computer to do it
6) No sending messages to other players by using new character names
7) No Sea Patrols on T1
8) Anonymous (so nobody knows who is playing which kingdoms)
9) 7 regions to win

**Netstrider** · 03-15-2017, 10:10 PM

(03-15-2017, 07:03 PM)Jumpingfist Wrote: you want no chivalry, no quarter yet you have a boat load of house rules lets play nice. Putting hypotheticals is silly. I am sure there are just as many bad team combo.
To me the chivalry bonus is a way to give a bit for getting screwed out of your preferences. You are only getting a bonus if it was your 4th selection. Meaning you lost 2 or 3 tie breakers to be put in that spot. You got hosed and here is s little something. Same idea why picking 11th or 12th in a single player game. You do not always get the worst kingdom but you had little choice so you get a bonus. Also like single player if the draft position are random then I would say no chivalry bonus every one got what they got better luck next time.

The kingdoms I specified aren't really hypothetical. There's a good chance that this is exactly what C has chosen.

Most of the house rules aren't about playing nice, they are how warlords stays anonymous and in the spirit of warlords. They are "house rules" because the game engine doesn't support the rules we want.

And yes, if we go random and don't have to worry about what chivalry for getting "hosed", then I'm in favor of that for future games.

**RELLGAR** · 03-15-2017, 10:33 PM

I'm available for a takeover if the need arises. Should someone have to drop before turn 18.

Rellgar