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**Strylian** · 05-09-2019, 06:14 PM

I am looking for documentation or knowladgeon what are the effects of a declaration of war against another realm? I would like to know the benefit and negatives of doing so.

I guess it would stand to reason then too that I might as well learn the effects of declaring an ally.

**Calidor** · 05-09-2019, 11:33 PM

Again, someone may correct this but I will share my understanding:
Declaring one an enemy gives you a small bonus in battle against them. Politically it makes their reaction in any region you control go down 1 level. No effect if already hostile.

Allies work the opposite. Any declared allies get 1 level improved reaction in regions you could control. It also allows you to unilaterally gift resources to them. Also, they are immune to any negative regional effect spells you might cast or to negative actions like fleet intercepts on the seas.

If I missed something hopefully someone else will chime in for you.

**Strylian** · 05-10-2019, 12:43 AM

(05-09-2019, 11:33 PM)Calidor Wrote: Again, someone may correct this but I will share my understanding:
Declaring one an enemy gives you a small bonus in battle against them. Politically it makes their reaction in any region you control go down 1 level. No effect if already hostile.

Allies work the opposite. Any declared allies get 1 level improved reaction in regions you could control. It also allows you to unilaterally gift resources to them. Also, they are immune to any negative regional effect spells you might cast or to negative actions like fleet intercepts on the seas.

If I missed something hopefully someone else will chime in for you.

Thanks Much Appreciated

**DuPont** · 05-10-2019, 03:17 AM

The other thing is that being declared an enemy gives you a boost in status points and being declared an ally is a negative to your status points.

**Strylian** · 05-10-2019, 04:44 AM

What about in a zone you control. Does it make it more difficult for an enemy to use diplomats to take a population and if yes is there an actual percentage?

**Strylian** · 05-10-2019, 04:55 AM

I guess the real question is.

When is it beneficial to declare someone your fighting with an enemy vs holding off on making a declaration?
Do you wait for the conflict to become military or is their a benefit to declaring vs someone you are having a diplomatic fight with?

**Calidor** · (This post was last modified: 05-10-2019, 11:55 AM by Calidor.)

(05-10-2019, 04:55 AM)Strylian Wrote: I guess the real question is.

When is it beneficial to declare someone your fighting with an enemy vs holding off on making a declaration?
Do you wait for the conflict to become military or is their a benefit to declaring vs someone you are having a diplomatic fight with?

IMHO it is far more a political weapon than a military one. The military bonus is small. The political one is large IF you control regions. Without regional control it’s not worth much. With regional control it makes it much harder for your enemy to use diplomats (or to take PCs with groups using parlay or diplomacy)

The problem (to me) with declaring early is that it’s a global proclamation so all the other jackals... I mean Kingdoms... a heads up that you are in a war and also as DuPont mentioned, you give your enemy free Status Points. Last game I played I declared 2 enemies I never actually fought. It was pre-emptive because I had tight control of my region.

**Strylian** · 05-10-2019, 11:57 AM

(05-10-2019, 11:49 AM)Calidor Wrote:
(05-10-2019, 04:55 AM)Strylian Wrote: I guess the real question is.

When is it beneficial to declare someone your fighting with an enemy vs holding off on making a declaration?
Do you wait for the conflict to become military or is their a benefit to declaring vs someone you are having a diplomatic fight with?

IMHO it is far more a political weapon than a military one. The military bonus is small. The political one is large IF you control regions. Without regional control it’s not worth much. With regional control it makes it much harder for your enemy to use diplomats (or to take PCs with groups using parlay or diplomacy)

The problem (to me) with declaring early is that it’s a global proclamation so all the other jackals... I mean Kingdoms... a heads up that you are in a war and also as DuPont mentioned, you give your enemy free Status Points. Last game I played I declared 2 enemies I never actually fought. It was pre-emptive because I had tight control of my region.

Ok thanks Calidor, that is one of the issues I have been unclear on. I appreciate it. .

**Strongwill** · 05-10-2019, 12:42 PM

The military bonus is probably like a plus 5% (guessing) but if both are declared it cancels each out. Enemy troops in your region if you control it and can make it hostile will suffer 3% moral loss a turn. If your a devout kingdom much higher. For political: denigrate and enemy declaration same turn can drop enemy reaction two levels the turn you declare him, if you control the region. But mostly what has already been said. Smile

**Ry Vor** · 05-10-2019, 02:19 PM

You guys did a pretty good job covering it.

Politically, as I've said, the old (3rd Cycle) player aide listed as "Frost Lord Calculators" in the 3rd Cycle Documents from the order entry site still is very helpful for lots of stuff, but for political actions to simulate the greater regional reaction resistance (Friendly is now 1.5 vs was 1.0 in The Choosing, Tolerant is now 2.5 vs. 2.0 in The Choosing) and the greater resistance of PC's (Towns used to be 2.6 now 3.0) you can slide the calculator to one column 'worse" regional reaction. That is, if you are Tolerant, enter all the values in the player aid except use Suspicious for your regional reaction instead of Tolerant, etc. This will get you close.

The political reactions are a comparison of noble power vs. PC Resistance, modified by regional reaction, kingdom traits, and any Stir Unrest and Maintain Status Quo.

So in the generic, a baron (50% of influence) of a king with 12 Influence would have power 6.0. A neutral town in a tolerant region would have base resistance of 3.0 x 2.5 = 7.5, so the Baron would fail to Usurp control even on a favorable day. If you use the player aid with Tolerant it will say you will be successful. If you use Suspicious it will say fail except on a good day, which is still too optimistic. Throw in a Governor Stirring Unrest your chances improve as he would add 12 x 0.3 / 2.5 = about 1.2

Again, don't forget kingdom trait modifications like Order and Ruthless which can add intrinsic status quo, or conversely Oratory and Cunning which give bonuses to actions. And now PC Improvements add mostly MSQ or a few like Bazaar add Stir Unrest.

So yes, declaring an enemy moves the needle one column worse in political actions, can cause morale loss. Its very hard now to do much politically at Suspicious until you have high influence.

Surely, someone is going to ask when is the new player aid coming out? Don't hold your breath. Frost Lord designed Excel sheets as a big part of his "real" job and he was kind of pulling his hair out trying to capture all the variable over a few weeks it took to do just that page of the Player Aids.