Game 5680

[Strongwill]

Gkmetty,

I have experienced this myself as the Dwarves.  I believe the wording of the order is misleading.

"Special Order: Evasion (Order #118). Evade prevents combat with the specified group if in Mountain terrain. Not considered as a retreat for either group and is equivalent to a normal defensive order (so cannot attack groups/pop centers/encounters nor rest/set ambush). Evasion is limited to groups of up to 5 brigades."
With this command, you are similar to ambushing/invisible, neither of which prevents another group from attacking your PC.  I will check with Mike on this, but if you could simply use evasion, you could never take a dwarven town/city in the mtns, but it should be re-worded if this is the case.

More to come

These are direct copies from the rules.

Group Defending Population Center. If a foreign group exists at the population center, it must be defeated, destroyed (no troops left), or forced to retreat from battle, in order for the attacker to continue onward to the population center. This also applies for attempts to parley, threaten, diplomacy (spell), or siege the popcenter.

Special Order: Evasion (Order #118). Evade prevents combat with the specified group if in Mountain terrain. Not considered as a retreat for either group and is the equivalent to a normal defensive order (so cannot attack groups/pop centers/encounters nor rest/set ambush). Evasion is limited to groups of up to 5 brigades.

Please explain to me how this works because your explanation contradicts the rules.

I always thought this was the perfect way to defend a PC but experimented with it years ago, it doesn't work, obviously, and it would be silly if it did.  The rules obviously need to be reworded.

Correct me if I’m wrong but if you attack the group that evaded on anything other than determined, they evade. And remain on pop stopping the attack on the pop. If you attack on determined the battle occurred, although with more than usual casualties but the pop can then be attacked? Assuming you won the group on group fight

What is even more bizarre is I attacked the evading group twice on determined with other groups and no combat. I thought if you attacked on determined you took casualties from traps, but then normal group combat. That didn't happen, either. LY

That’s what I thought too

[Windstar]

If anyone is selling food this turn, (26) I'll take it.

I have up to 100k of food that can be yours for the right price of 50k in gold. Verify and we will do business. And to whom do I send it?

[Lord Garth]

"Evasion" and "tunnels and Traps" are actually two different orders.

Special Order: Evasion (Order #118). Evade prevents combat with the specified group if in Mountain terrain. Not considered as a retreat for either group and is the equivalent to a normal defensive order (so cannot attack groups/pop centers/encounters nor rest/set ambush). Evasion is limited to groups of up to 5 brigades.

Special Order: Dwarven Tunnels & Traps (Order #120, TAC 1), only may be issued in the Mountains. A successful withdraw of the Dwarven group will occur prior to combat unless the opposing group was issued a Determined Attack directive (TAC 3). If so, the opposing group will suffer significantly casualties from numerous Dwarven traps prior to being able to engage the Dwarves.

For the purposes of protecting PCs I think the Evasion order provides none. They are, in affect, hiding and not preventing the enemy army from reaching the pop. I believe an invisible group has a similar effect. If you attack and the Dwarf Evades you are free to attack the PC.

The Tunnels and Traps order is different. Battle should ensue, the Dwarven defender will withdraw on a 1 and you take 'significant' losses but can then attack the PC.

[Windstar]

If anyone is selling food this turn, (26) I'll take it.

I have up to 100k of food that can be yours for the right price of 50k in gold. Verify and we will do business. And to whom do I send it?

I believe that you are the SO. I put in the order just in case you want the food. If not, no loss.

[Strongwill]

"Evasion" and "tunnels and Traps" are actually two different orders.

Special Order: Evasion (Order #118). Evade prevents combat with the specified group if in Mountain terrain. Not considered as a retreat for either group and is the equivalent to a normal defensive order (so cannot attack groups/pop centers/encounters nor rest/set ambush). Evasion is limited to groups of up to 5 brigades.

Special Order: Dwarven Tunnels & Traps (Order #120, TAC 1), only may be issued in the Mountains. A successful withdraw of the Dwarven group will occur prior to combat unless the opposing group was issued a Determined Attack directive (TAC 3). If so, the opposing group will suffer significantly casualties from numerous Dwarven traps prior to being able to engage the Dwarves.

For the purposes of protecting PCs I think the Evasion order provides none. They are, in affect, hiding and not preventing the enemy army from reaching the pop. I believe an invisible group has a similar effect. If you attack and the Dwarf Evades you are free to attack the PC.

The Tunnels and Traps order is different. Battle should ensue, the Dwarven defender will withdraw on a 1 and you take 'significant' losses but can then attack the PC.

Good stuff man.. need to go over some rules deeper..lol

[gkmetty]

All,

As you have all seen the exchange between Brekk and me, the rules as printed are not accurate. The DW in the mountains should be able to protect its PCs by stationing a group at the PC and evading as the description says, evading is not a retreat. Further, again as printed in the rules, an attacking group must make a defending group retreat before it can attack the PC. I have copied the relevant sections of the rules below for reference.

Group Defending Population Center. If a foreign group exists at the population center, it must be defeated, destroyed (no troops left), or forced to retreat from battle, in order for the attacker to continue onward to the population center. This also applies for attempts to parley, threaten, diplomacy (spell), or siege the popcenter.

Special Order: Evasion (Order #118). Evade prevents combat with the specified group if in Mountain terrain. Not considered as a retreat for either group and is the equivalent to a normal defensive order (so cannot attack groups/pop centers/encounters nor rest/set ambush). Evasion is limited to groups of up to 5 brigades.

This is not how the program works.

For this game, the LY with its approximately 40 to 50 brigades of troops was going to have difficulty supporting that massive army until he took/takes the DW pop centers. This is a huge game changer not only for the DW who will be eliminated/or drop, but for everyone who remains in the game.

Good luck

[Strongwill]

(This also applies for attempts to parley, threaten, diplomacy (spell), or siege the popcenter.) This isn't stated anywhere in set or under evasion in rules.

• Special Order: Evasion (Order #118). Evade prevents combat with the specified
group if in Mountain terrain. Not considered as a retreat for either group and is the
134 equivalent to a normal defensive order (so cannot attack groups/pop
centers/encounters nor rest/set ambush). Evasion is limited to groups of up to 5
brigades.

If a sieging group is attacked by a relieving force and **retreats** from group-to-group
combat, the siege is broken.

(so cannot attack groups/pop
centers/encounters nor rest/set ambush) this is the evading force not attacking?

[Jon Deaux]

If anyone is selling food this turn, (26) I'll take it.

I have up to 100k of food that can be yours for the right price of 50k in gold. Verify and we will do business. And to whom do I send it?

I believe that you are the SO. I put in the order just in case you want the food. If not, no loss.

Yes thank you good sir.

[Brekk]

As Gkmetty mentioned we have spoken about this, there is little that can be done at this point, and for that, I apologize. I do not believe it was the intent for this order to allow dwarves to permanently defend a PC in the mountains, that is simply overpowered and wouldn't make a lot of sense, but rather this needs to be rewritten to avoid confusion in the future.

[DuPont]

FT - not a very friendly way to treat your neighbours in triumvia, I thought you were a nation of traders. DK

For the record, I have no expectations of beating you, just figured I'd rather do something instead of waiting around to be attacked by somebody! I'm too big a target now.