Battle descriptors

[Strongwill]

Any idea of what the difference in defense is between each category? And wouldn’t shield build a units defense and pump it up to a status equivalent to a higher defensive value troop? As it swirls in my mind, a P8 shield should, if consistent with other spells, add 40% defensive value to brigades. Would that not inflate the defensive value of troops making them more superior? I know veteran and elite add 50% and 75% value to the brigade, making that paladin brigade more like a 1.75 brigade. idk I get a head ache thinking about it.

That said in group to group combat my main goal is to stay in fight longer than opponent, as the retreating group takes more losses and moral loss. So anything I can do magically to reduce losses I usually do.

[Jon Deaux]

Any idea of what the difference in defense is between each category? And wouldn’t shield build a units defense and pump it up to a status equivalent to a higher defensive value troop? As it swirls in my mind, a P8 shield should, if consistent with other spells, add 40% defensive value to brigades. Would that not inflate the defensive value of troops making them more superior? I know veteran and elite add 50% and 75% value to the brigade, making that paladin brigade more like a 1.75 brigade. idk I get a head ache thinking about it.

That said in group to group combat my main goal is to stay in fight longer than opponent, as the retreating group takes more losses and moral loss. So anything I can do magically to reduce losses I usually do.

Veteran is 1.25, Elite is 1.75, that's why the big push to get Elite.  I am only guessing, but I suspect shield is not actually a percentage.  A "25%" shield, I am guessing, adds .25 to the defense (rather than multiplies it by 1.25).  So, it would be 25% with troops of average defense (ie. 1 to 1.25), but not with troops of good defense, for example.

If it was a multiplier, it would be more effective with troops of higher defense.  But, that is possible, I suppose.  The same could be true with leadership.  I always added 0.25 for a warlord, I did not multiply by 1.25.  This could be an error of mine, an obvious one I should really have considered.

I would guess the difference in defense between the descriptors at between 0.2 and 0.7, it might be linear, it might not be.  I seem to remember using something like 0.5.   I really just don't remember what values I was using in my formulas.  But, I could usually calculate losses within about 2 percent.  Not always though, which is what frustrated me, there must have been things I wasn't taking into account.  And I took EVERYTHING into account, including the shield effect provided by each wizard's presence.  (I added it, I did not multiply it)

Another thing to consider: The description is based on a statistic, not a scaled linear representation.  If the kingdom set-ups tell the tale correctly, the kingdoms defense values were given, then an ANOVA was conducted, assigning all kingdoms with a Z score from -0.39 to 0.39 as "Average" and so on.  "Good" is one full standard deviation above the mean.  Although, it is unclear whether this analysis was done on only kingdom brigades, or all brigades, and whether or not the analysis was conducted again after all the new troops were added.  I suspect not, and therefore suspect the description system probably needs to be recalculated.

Or, just assign the numbers to descriptors and give us the numbers... "average" is not actually a statistical average anymore, it equals exactly somewhere between 0.9 and 1.1, and so on.

My guess is the defense divider on "ultimate" could be as high as 5.

Speaking on the issue of whether or not the scale is linear... I notice now that I am looking that the range of "average" for instance, is 0.8 deviations, while the range of good is only 0.6, and the range of excellent is 0.75, so I guess that answers the linear question.

I suggest just give us the numerical range encompassed by each defense description.  And I'd personally like to know whether leadership, shield and forged armor actually give a percentage increase, or is it just added.  Does a base defense divider of 2 go up to 2.25 (added) with forged armor or up to 2.5 (multiplied).

If it is multiplied, defense dividers could get pretty insane.  Three warlords and forged armor would double it.  Elite dragons would be taking perhaps only 10% of damage dealt.

I guess I could test that if I have some time in my Dragon game.

[Strongwill]

Awesome stuff, I could stop all my DK stuff move my armies obver to your RD positions and test group on group attack? Sup to u

[Jon Deaux]

Awesome stuff, I could stop all my DK stuff move my armies obver to your RD positions and test group on group attack? Sup to u

Less variables at play when you test this kind of stuff against PC.  If I have time, I will make a group with one or two Elite RD, 3 Warlords Forged armor and no wizards/artifacts and attack a village.  I should take about 10% of the PCs value as damage if the defense modifiers are multiplicative.  So, for instance if 2 Elite RD w/3 warlords are say 10000 value vs PC (probably a little more), and the village is 5000, I should take 500 damage or about 5% of my value vs PC.  If my damage is more than 5%, we know the modifiers are not multiplicative.

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Awesome stuff, I could stop all my DK stuff move my armies obver to your RD positions and test group on group attack? Sup to u

Less variables at play when you test this kind of stuff against PC.  If I have time, I will make a group with one or two Elite RD, 3 Warlords Forged armor and no wizards/artifacts and attack a village.  I should take about 10% of the PCs value as damage if the defense modifiers are multiplicative.  So, for instance if 2 Elite RD w/3 warlords are say 10000 value vs PC (probably a little more), and the village is 5000, I should take 500 damage or about 5% of my value vs PC.  If my damage is more than 5%, we know the modifiers are not multiplicative.

I mean, that's a really gross estimate.  I still don't remember exactly how damage is applied and stuff. Dragons value vs PC is +20%, PC value is -10% due to fear, etc...  We'll see.

[Strongwill]

Awesome stuff, I could stop all my DK stuff move my armies obver to your RD positions and test group on group attack? Sup to u

Less variables at play when you test this kind of stuff against PC.  If I have time, I will make a group with one or two Elite RD, 3 Warlords Forged armor and no wizards/artifacts and attack a village.  I should take about 10% of the PCs value as damage if the defense modifiers are multiplicative.  So, for instance if 2 Elite RD w/3 warlords are say 10000 value vs PC (probably a little more), and the village is 5000, I should take 500 damage or about 5% of my value vs PC.  If my damage is more than 5%, we know the modifiers are not multiplicative.

---

Awesome stuff, I could stop all my DK stuff move my armies obver to your RD positions and test group on group attack? Sup to u

Less variables at play when you test this kind of stuff against PC.  If I have time, I will make a group with one or two Elite RD, 3 Warlords Forged armor and no wizards/artifacts and attack a village.  I should take about 10% of the PCs value as damage if the defense modifiers are multiplicative.  So, for instance if 2 Elite RD w/3 warlords are say 10000 value vs PC (probably a little more), and the village is 5000, I should take 500 damage or about 5% of my value vs PC.  If my damage is more than 5%, we know the modifiers are not multiplicative.

I mean, that's a really gross estimate.  I still don't remember exactly how damage is applied and stuff. Dragons value vs PC is +20%, PC value is -10% due to fear, etc...  We'll see.

Cool post results.

[Lord Garth]

Any idea of what the difference in defense is between each category? And wouldn’t shield build a units defense and pump it up to a status equivalent to a higher defensive value troop? As it swirls in my mind, a P8 shield should, if consistent with other spells, add 40% defensive value to brigades. Would that not inflate the defensive value of troops making them more superior? I know veteran and elite add 50% and 75% value to the brigade, making that paladin brigade more like a 1.75 brigade. idk I get a head ache thinking about it.

That said in group to group combat my main goal is to stay in fight longer than opponent, as the retreating group takes more losses and moral loss. So anything I can do magically to reduce losses I usually do.

Veteran is 1.25, Elite is 1.75, that's why the big push to get Elite.  I am only guessing, but I suspect shield is not actually a percentage.  A "25%" shield, I am guessing, adds .25 to the defense (rather than multiplies it by 1.25).  So, it would be 25% with troops of average defense (ie. 1 to 1.25), but not with troops of good defense, for example.

If it was a multiplier, it would be more effective with troops of higher defense.  But, that is possible, I suppose.  The same could be true with leadership.  I always added 0.25 for a warlord, I did not multiply by 1.25.  This could be an error of mine, an obvious one I should really have considered.

I would guess the difference in defense between the descriptors at between 0.2 and 0.7, it might be linear, it might not be.  I seem to remember using something like 0.5.   I really just don't remember what values I was using in my formulas.  But, I could usually calculate losses within about 2 percent.  Not always though, which is what frustrated me, there must have been things I wasn't taking into account.  And I took EVERYTHING into account, including the shield effect provided by each wizard's presence.  (I added it, I did not multiply it)

Another thing to consider: The description is based on a statistic, not a scaled linear representation.  If the kingdom set-ups tell the tale correctly, the kingdoms defense values were given, then an ANOVA was conducted, assigning all kingdoms with a Z score from -0.39 to 0.39 as "Average" and so on.  "Good" is one full standard deviation above the mean.  Although, it is unclear whether this analysis was done on only kingdom brigades, or all brigades, and whether or not the analysis was conducted again after all the new troops were added.  I suspect not, and therefore suspect the description system probably needs to be recalculated.

Or, just assign the numbers to descriptors and give us the numbers... "average" is not actually a statistical average anymore, it equals exactly somewhere between 0.9 and 1.1, and so on.

My guess is the defense divider on "ultimate" could be as high as 5.

Speaking on the issue of whether or not the scale is linear... I notice now that I am looking that the range of "average" for instance, is 0.8 deviations, while the range of good is only 0.6, and the range of excellent is 0.75, so I guess that answers the linear question.

I suggest just give us the numerical range encompassed by each defense description.  And I'd personally like to know whether leadership, shield and forged armor actually give a percentage increase, or is it just added.  Does a base defense divider of 2 go up to 2.25 (added) with forged armor or up to 2.5 (multiplied).

If it is multiplied, defense dividers could get pretty insane.  Three warlords and forged armor would double it.  Elite dragons would be taking perhaps only 10% of damage dealt.

I guess I could test that if I have some time in my Dragon game.

Erik,

I've done some testing in the past as I've always been curious about the Defensive Dividers. The math never worked out exactly perfect but from what I saw the Defense Bonuses seemed to be multiplied, not added.

But do a test for yourself. I'm curious if you come to the same conclusion.