Battle descriptors

[Windstar2]

I was hoping that someone in the know would please rank the damage ratings during a combat encounter. So, like minor is less or more than noticeable? It would really make sense of how a battle is shaping up as you continue to read the battle report.

In addition, how are the rankings on the unit sheet ranked as well? Like when you get to renowned and ultimate and superior? 

Just a thought.

[Strongwill]

I was hoping that someone in the know would please rank the damage ratings during a combat encounter. So, like minor is less or more than noticeable? It would really make sense of how a battle is shaping up as you continue to read the battle report.

In addition, how are the rankings on the unit sheet ranked as well? Like when you get to renowned and ultimate and superior? 

Just a thought.

Post this in the gripes and complaints thread so John can have all of it in one place bro

[Strongwill]

Question? Is there a top out for the shield spell? And is it less effective for troops that start with much higher defense ratings like SA/PA/RD/GI type brigades than those with more ceiling like orc/undead types? I’m curious.

[Zar@shand]

Question? Is there a top out for the shield spell? And is it less effective for troops that start with much higher defense ratings like SA/PA/RD/GI type brigades than those with more ceiling like orc/undead types? I’m curious.

This is just my experience from the 7 games I have played and what I have managed to find from what uncle mike has posted on the forums.

The shield spell seems to add a maximum of 25%, just like other spells like fear etc. I can't find any info if there is a hard ceiling at ultimate, or if it goes past that number. You would assume it does as certain brigades at regular are ultimate, so they should continue to pass that number as they level. In theory the lower your armies defence rating the greater the benefit.

[Strongwill]

Question? Is there a top out for the shield spell? And is it less effective for troops that start with much higher defense ratings like SA/PA/RD/GI type brigades than those with more ceiling like orc/undead types? I’m curious.

This is just my experience from the 7 games I have played and what I have managed to find from what uncle mike has posted on the forums.

The shield spell seems to add a maximum of 25%, just like other spells like fear etc. I can't find any info if there is a hard ceiling at ultimate, or if it goes past that number. You would assume it does as certain brigades at regular are ultimate, so they should continue to pass that number as they level. In theory the lower your armies defence rating the greater the benefit.

That’s how I read it too, after years of playing. However I’m almost positive no cap was set for the % of benefit, like valor and fear have. There used to be a list ranking the highest to lowest defensive ratings, I can’t find it anymore. I think ultimate is highest.

[Zar@shand]

I suspect you are right that there is no cap on the total % that can be added.
In the rules it says that leaders effect the lost divider, but this doesn't show up on the military group status, unlike the combat value.
Only one artifact mentions the defence rating and increases it by 30%, but it is possible that the other combat artifacts effect both combat value as well as defence.
Add in forged/mithril armour and the shield spell and we could have some pretty huge multipliers.

Here is the list of what I believe are the defence descriptions in ascending order

Below average
average
above average
good
very good
excellent
renowned
superior
awesome
ultimate

[Strongwill]

I suspect you are right that there is no cap on the total % that can be added.
In the rules it says that leaders effect the lost divider, but this doesn't show up on the military group status, unlike the combat value.
Only one artifact mentions the defence rating and increases it by 30%, but it is possible that the other combat artifacts effect both combat value as well as defence.
Add in forged/mithril armour and the shield spell and we could have some pretty huge multipliers.

Here is the list of what I believe are the defence descriptions in ascending order

Below average
average
above average
good
very good
excellent
renowned
superior
awesome
ultimate

Ahh I think that’s it. thank you

[Jon Deaux]

Ultimate is the highest descriptor, since Red Dragons Veteran are Ultimate, and when they get promoted to Elite, they stay Ultimate.  However, that does not mean their defense stays the same.  The actual defense number and the descriptor may not be 100% correlated.  From what I have gleaned, you have to look at defense as a "damage divider."  "Average" defense might be 1, or no reduction. I don't think you get a full point for "above average", but as you go up the scale, you do gain half a point, perhaps more.

The problem with experimenting is that there are actually several variables that contribute to your total defense divider, including leadership, forged armor and artifacts.  A warlord adds, I think Rick may have mentioned, about 0.25 defense, the same as forged armor, I think.

I don't know if shield caps, and I rarely use it.  I haven't done the experiments but have always assumed that windstorm protects more than shield (vs PC).  Since you also always want to use fear and valor against very large PCs... there just has never been any room for shield.

However, if shield doesn't cap, while fear and valor do, might be worth looking into.

---

Actually, I should have mentioned this...  The descriptor (average, above average, etc...) most likely describes a range of values for defense divider.  It could be, for example, the "average" defense is between 0.75 and 1.25... or something like that.  So, it could actually be that a unit with average defense is very different, or not so very different than one with above average defense.

You can see this as you promote different units.  Two units each with average defense, promoted to veteran, may not have the same defense descriptor anymore.  This is because the defense value undergoes the same increase as the strength value, an increase of 25%.  So, if you have a brigade that is 1.2, right on the upper edge of "average" adding 25% may push it to "Good", whereas if you have a unit at the lower edge of "average" a 25% increase may only raise it to "Above Average"

---

Actually, now that I am remembering, I think the differences are much smaller than that.  "average" might only be a range from 0.9 to 1.1.  Above average might be from 1.1 to 1.3.  Draugr always told me that the increase is only 0.2 between descriptors, but I found that hard to believe after my own experiments.  I have found some troops to be very tough.  Speculating, there is nothing that says the scale has to be linear.  It the increments could grow along with their size.

[Strongwill]

Ultimate is the highest descriptor, since Red Dragons Veteran are Ultimate, and when they get promoted to Elite, they stay Ultimate.  However, that does not mean their defense stays the same.  The actual defense number and the descriptor may not be 100% correlated.  From what I have gleaned, you have to look at defense as a "damage divider."  "Average" defense might be 1, or no reduction. I don't think you get a full point for "above average", but as you go up the scale, you do gain half a point, perhaps more.

The problem with experimenting is that there are actually several variables that contribute to your total defense divider, including leadership, forged armor and artifacts.  A warlord adds, I think Rick may have mentioned, about 0.25 defense, the same as forged armor, I think.

I don't know if shield caps, and I rarely use it.  I haven't done the experiments but have always assumed that windstorm protects more than shield (vs PC).  Since you also always want to use fear and valor against very large PCs... there just has never been any room for shield.

However, if shield doesn't cap, while fear and valor do, might be worth looking into.

---

Actually, I should have mentioned this...  The descriptor (average, above average, etc...) most likely describes a range of values for defense divider.  It could be, for example, the "average" defense is between 0.75 and 1.25... or something like that.  So, it could actually be that a unit with average defense is very different, or not so very different than one with above average defense.

You can see this as you promote different units.  Two units each with average defense, promoted to veteran, may not have the same defense descriptor anymore.  This is because the defense value undergoes the same increase as the strength value, an increase of 25%.  So, if you have a brigade that is 1.2, right on the upper edge of "average" adding 25% may push it to "Good", whereas if you have a unit at the lower edge of "average" a 25% increase may only raise it to "Above Average"

---

Actually, now that I am remembering, I think the differences are much smaller than that.  "average" might only be a range from 0.9 to 1.1.  Above average might be from 1.1 to 1.3.  Draugr always told me that the increase is only 0.2 between descriptors, but I found that hard to believe after my own experiments.  I have found some troops to be very tough.  Speculating, there is nothing that says the scale has to be linear.  It the increments could grow along with their size.

Hahaha got you thinking . I can see max fear and max valor as mainstays to a large group (bigger group, bigger overall add) windstorm even after the upgrade nerf is good for pops due to the population attack phase being the archery phase, but I would like to test shield with average troops against higher defensive troops with comparable leaders/moral and stuff. just to get an idea about how good the spell is.

Also I remember awhile back (may have been fixed) the weapon artifacts didn't really have that much effect on combat. Do you think the full weight of bonus is in play now? Draugr used to say not to worry storing them up, because the bonus didn't transpire into the game, from what he could see. but that was a long time ago.

[Jon Deaux]

I try not to think too hard.  Thinking is what made the game annoying enough I had to quit, for a while.  I had multiple spreadsheets littered with numbers, formulas and values trying to reverse engineer the combat calculator, it became an obsession. One day I just deleted everything and quit the game, now I just try and enjoy it casually.

The goal of course is to be able to calculate your damage so you can set it right at about 5%, enough to get brigade promotions, but lose the least amount of troops.  You can get close enough by guessing, though.  Compare your conditions to the last battle, make adjustments.  For instance, as the Reds just now, I had a battle where I used fear/valor/windstorm, and ended up with about 6% losses.  I ended up the next battle with a significantly higher value VS PC and a slightly smaller PC... so instead of casting fear/valor/windstorm again, I just cast fear and valor, and again got my 6% losses.

The thing to remember is, and I've wrote about this a lot, is that nothing protects your troops like the increase in brigade defense you get from promoting to Elite.  Its far more than forged weapons or leadership.  And the starting defense is incredibly important because increases are percentages.  Trolls, Mammoths, Hill Giants, Paladins, these brigades that start off as excellent defense can absorb an incredible amount of damage when promoted to elite.