Pricing and Service

[Ry Vor]

Alamaze is being run with same day processing and we are running about 20 games at essentially a 2x per week processing. So we are running something like 500 turns per week. At overall, a little less than $2.00 per turn.

When it was run in NC, it was about $7.50 per turn, plus extra charges, at a two week turnaround, which might stretch to several days to process turns and with just a handful of games. That's pretty much like the other PBM standard you will find everywhere else.

All the "competition" is at at least $7.50 a turn. We have Duel 2 players that pay $10.50 a turn for maybe a 10 page printout that I believe is the same as it was in about 1990. Legends players may pay $20 a turn. What I get back from our players mainly is "we don't play those games" and we think $2 - $3 is about right - but we don't hear from many on that.

While most players pay their invoices, send turns in on time (yes even a minute late screws us up), submit only one set of orders, complete the correct set of what game, kingdom, and turn they are on, everyday several players don't do some of that. And I believe they look fondly back on the days in NC when everything would be worked out, for just some more money. "Please look into this."

So, I am open to going back to $7.50 per turn, being laid back and talking to players, investigating their turns, etc. I just can't do that when we are now running in every given day about what was previously done in a month, at 25% of the price.

We thought we would have a web based order entry system, and an order checking utility by now, but we don't. We are working with the same technology from the 1990's.

I'll also admit I am about the last personality type to be in customer service. And I have way-too-high blood pressure. So when every day, there about five cases, of "would you please spend 30 minutes doing something you are not paid or expected to do", I really think we should go back to the high touch personal service of $7.50 a turn. Just to get almost everything out of my system, never say to me "it should be easy", unless you are going to do it. And don't say, "Review my turn". I barely review my own turns. I am happy when I am done at 10pm.

I guess I am asking if you would be cool with going back to "normal" pricing as I can't do the drastically discounted pricing and do all the extra stuff. I don't want to lose you as a player, but I also can't forever do 5x what any other company in our space would do - I have no tech advantage, I am just working 5x harder.

[Ry Vor]

No need for major concern on changes coming or a need to reply. Mainly I sometimes need to get something off my chest. Main thing is I was trying to communicate I can't do $7.50 per turn customer high-touch at about 25% of that. I am not planning any pricing change at this time. I do appreciate the kind sentiments I get in some form or fashion from time to time, and because the money is low, the appreciation means more than most would expect.

A reminder if everyone would make an effort to attract one new player, then there would be more money for web based order entry, and when things are automated, there is a lot more time and money for development, which is what I really want to do.

[Jumpingfist]

I for one would be good with a month of once a week turns if that would get some kind of automated order entry and or get the ESO thing rolled out. If SVC came out later that would be fine I think a lot of players look forward to some of these no SVC games as a change of pace for a while.

Suggestion for the late orders. Make the deadline 3am EST. Get players in the habit of doing the turns the night before. This way someone is not asking for 30 mins when they are already are 9 hrs late. If they want to risk it they can turn them in after the deadline but when grasshopper starts to work those orders 6 or so hours later it is done.

Players do need to understand if it is not a critical problem just report the bug and move on with your game. Not that I do this myself. I just get mad and ignore it now.

[Acererak]

I think anyone understands that this is a business, and that you need to run it like a business. For the fantastic price that you charge the expectations need to align to that. I for one am happy to understand this reality and support your need to do what you have to do in order to provide this service.

Completely makes sense.

[Cloud]

I guess it's up to me to say it -

I'm not one of the players who clogs your inbox, so I would not be in favor of costs increasing just to accommodate them. They should bother you less!

Cloud

[Ry Vor]

Unless something weird happens, there will be no pricing change before September. The best course is between then and now we have 125 active players and an automated web order entry system. Otherwise we will likely need a price increase then. Meanwhile, all can rest assured we intend to keep keeping on.

[Lord Diamond]

I would not go back to a turn based payment system. Nor would I stay in a game with no chance of finishing well. You'll go back to players dropping all the time. That would ruin this game.

That being said, so what you have to do. If the price/fun ratio doesn't work out, I will leave. If it does, I will stick around.

[unclemike]

We thought we would have a web based order entry system, and an order checking utility by now, but we don't.

Well, actually, you do have a sample online order validation program that I posted under the Alamaze Rules and Resources section (http://kingdomsofarcania.net/forum/showt...p?tid=8776).

I haven't updated it since my original post and the free server it's on closed my account for inactivity but it still works for the most part. If it were moved to the Alamaze game server, you wouldn't get those annoying pop-up ads.

BTW, why wasn't my post moved to the Important Threads section so that players can access it easier (I get no respect around here ).

Anyway, it didn't take me long to write that code (about two weeks) and I included a document detailing future releases including fully automating the online order submission process so that players wouldn't have to email an excel file anymore. This would also allow players to submit an unlimited number of corrections prior to the turn's deadline as well.

But Rick said not to bother with it because he has a better alternative than what I was proposing so I never finished it. That's too bad because my version would have also prevented any price increases for the game.

I guess I could look into it again since its been about a year and no luck with the alternative but I haven't played this game in over six months and I'm kinda out of it right now.

BTW, prior to all of this, I also proposed to Rick if he was interested in my personal version of Alamaze that I wrote back when the game was no longer available. [I was bored during that time and coded my own version of Alamaze to entertain myself - some of the advantages of being a programmer by trade I guess.]

Took me about 2-3 months to write the code (much less than the 40 months [5 people 8 months] that Fall of Rome required and FoR is a simpler game with fewer concepts - no magic, high council, ...etc.). I hope he didn't pay much for FoR because he got screwed otherwise.

I also added some cool features to my personal version of Alamaze as the following:

(1) Fully customized kingdoms. During game setup, players may choose the number/quality of emissaries, agents, troops, wizards, etc. Players may even create a completely new kingdom like the mighty vulture-like Birdmen if they wanted.

(2) New special brigades types may be created and available for any kingdom. Like the Underworld having a special brigade type called Bandits. During testing, I created a new brigade type called Parrots for the above Birdmen kingdom which were awesome during play.

(3) Customizable seasonal effects. Games may start in any season while specifying which regions feel which effects (summer/winter). Also, may create something like an Ice Age scenario where regions 1-8 are under constant winter while 9,10 under spring - with water areas being frozen allowing troops to cross without ships and other effects like reduced food spoilage and/or 50% movement penalty during the harsh winter.

(4) Unlimited skeletons (not just one major and two minor). May be configured during kingdom setup so a player may choose to have more skeletons in order to spend points in getting an extra wizard or such. Also expanded skeleton types to include catastrophic for more damage and added the chance for a random positive skeleton that has opposite effect (like a successful propaganda or spin on the original skeleton).

(5) Customizable artifacts. This allows ease of adding/removing artifacts for the game as well as allowing players to create their own artifact (either with initial setup points or high level wizard spell with chance of the wizard dying from the effort).

(6) Hex-based mapping. Allows for randomly generated maps of any size/terrain combination.

(7) Enhanced seapower capabilities regarding number of fleets/quality and allowing groups to fight at sea if desired. Also added a new order for a fleet's special abilities: greek fire, ramming head, and cannons for an offensive attack bonus (+10,15,20%) or reinforced hulls and admiral maneuvers (+10,25%) for defense. I added a new column under the seapower section that lists any special enhancements that were purchased for that particular sea. This new feature to the game will really come in handy with hex-based maps that consists nearly entirely of water.

(8) New spells added to make high level wizards more valuable for their expense. Like the 6th level Ice Torrent spell that does 1500 pts of damage/level or my personal favorite Disintegrate (9th level spell that does 3000 pts of damage/level plus 20% morale loss from the demoralizing effect of seeing fellow troops turned into dust). Also added Lich-form which works like Wraith-form but higher level. Added a bunch of other interesting spells like Invisibility for agents, Summon Mummy troops in desert terrains, Control Weather for the region, Summon Demon Noble that acts as a 17th level agent for group leaders/wizs that also poisons the troop's food supplies. Mirror Image is a unique spell that allows the wizard to cast two lower level combat spells during battle (like both tornado and chaos). Or the powerful combat spell called Detonate that unleashes an enormous amount of damage in battle that also permanently kills the wizard (for those truly desperate times).

I've played with some of these enhancements and a few others not mentioned above and they definitely made the game more enjoyable to play!!!

But despite the best sales pitch that I could muster, Rick didn't want to cough up the cash so no deal was made. Too bad because I also tried to design my game engine to be generic enough to be used for other game formats like a new space fleet battle game, World War II scenario, or such which would have expanded the player base among all the games offered by Enlightened Age Entertainment.

[Acererak]

Some of this sounds good Uncle Mike (mostly the automated order entry and import/error checking)......but I think the thing that's missing is how much it would cost. If you're so sure it's such a great deal and kind of painting Rick as silly for not paying then just let us all know here in the open how much each of your proposed tools cost.

With the amount of time and energy Rick has put into this over his lifetime he's entitled to make the decisions on how it moves forward.

Hindsight is always 20/20 and talk is cheap. Much of the stuff in here is not something most players would want.

First things first- let's get the order entry and validation automated and that should free up lots of time otherwise used. I'm sure there's an API available that can translate excel to whatever inputs are needed by the Alamaze code base.

[Brogan]

We thought we would have a web based order entry system, and an order checking utility by now, but we don't.

Well, actually, you do have a sample online order validation program that I posted under the Alamaze Rules and Resources section (http://kingdomsofarcania.net/forum/showt...p?tid=8776).

I haven't updated it since my original post and the free server it's on closed my account for inactivity but it still works for the most part. If it were moved to the Alamaze game server, you wouldn't get those annoying pop-up ads.

BTW, why wasn't my post moved to the Important Threads section so that players can access it easier (I get no respect around here ).

Anyway, it didn't take me long to write that code (about two weeks) and I included a document detailing future releases including fully automating the online order submission process so that players wouldn't have to email an excel file anymore. This would also allow players to submit an unlimited number of corrections prior to the turn's deadline as well.

But Rick said not to bother with it because he has a better alternative than what I was proposing so I never finished it. That's too bad because my version would have also prevented any price increases for the game.

I guess I could look into it again since its been about a year and no luck with the alternative but I haven't played this game in over six months and I'm kinda out of it right now.

BTW, prior to all of this, I also proposed to Rick if he was interested in my personal version of Alamaze that I wrote back when the game was no longer available. [I was bored during that time and coded my own version of Alamaze to entertain myself - some of the advantages of being a programmer by trade I guess.]

Took me about 2-3 months to write the code (much less than the 40 months [5 people 8 months] that Fall of Rome required and FoR is a simpler game with fewer concepts - no magic, high council, ...etc.). I hope he didn't pay much for FoR because he got screwed otherwise.

I also added some cool features to my personal version of Alamaze as the following:

(1) Fully customized kingdoms. During game setup, players may choose the number/quality of emissaries, agents, troops, wizards, etc. Players may even create a completely new kingdom like the mighty vulture-like Birdmen if they wanted.

(2) New special brigades types may be created and available for any kingdom. Like the Underworld having a special brigade type called Bandits. During testing, I created a new brigade type called Parrots for the above Birdmen kingdom which were awesome during play.

(3) Customizable seasonal effects. Games may start in any season while specifying which regions feel which effects (summer/winter). Also, may create something like an Ice Age scenario where regions 1-8 are under constant winter while 9,10 under spring - with water areas being frozen allowing troops to cross without ships and other effects like reduced food spoilage and/or 50% movement penalty during the harsh winter.

(4) Unlimited skeletons (not just one major and two minor). May be configured during kingdom setup so a player may choose to have more skeletons in order to spend points in getting an extra wizard or such. Also expanded skeleton types to include catastrophic for more damage and added the chance for a random positive skeleton that has opposite effect (like a successful propaganda or spin on the original skeleton).

(5) Customizable artifacts. This allows ease of adding/removing artifacts for the game as well as allowing players to create their own artifact (either with initial setup points or high level wizard spell with chance of the wizard dying from the effort).

(6) Hex-based mapping. Allows for randomly generated maps of any size/terrain combination.

(7) Enhanced seapower capabilities regarding number of fleets/quality and allowing groups to fight at sea if desired. Also added a new order for a fleet's special abilities: greek fire, ramming head, and cannons for an offensive attack bonus (+10,15,20%) or reinforced hulls and admiral maneuvers (+10,25%) for defense. I added a new column under the seapower section that lists any special enhancements that were purchased for that particular sea. This new feature to the game will really come in handy with hex-based maps that consists nearly entirely of water.

(8) New spells added to make high level wizards more valuable for their expense. Like the 6th level Ice Torrent spell that does 1500 pts of damage/level or my personal favorite Disintegrate (9th level spell that does 3000 pts of damage/level plus 20% morale loss from the demoralizing effect of seeing fellow troops turned into dust). Also added Lich-form which works like Wraith-form but higher level. Added a bunch of other interesting spells like Invisibility for agents, Summon Mummy troops in desert terrains, Control Weather for the region, Summon Demon Noble that acts as a 17th level agent for group leaders/wizs that also poisons the troop's food supplies. Mirror Image is a unique spell that allows the wizard to cast two lower level combat spells during battle (like both tornado and chaos). Or the powerful combat spell called Detonate that unleashes an enormous amount of damage in battle that also permanently kills the wizard (for those truly desperate times).

I've played with some of these enhancements and a few others not mentioned above and they definitely made the game more enjoyable to play!!!

But despite the best sales pitch that I could muster, Rick didn't want to cough up the cash so no deal was made. Too bad because I also tried to design my game engine to be generic enough to be used for other game formats like a new space fleet battle game, World War II scenario, or such which would have expanded the player base among all the games offered by Enlightened Age Entertainment.

Awesome!