#173 - Full Steel Independence

[Thudargh]

I'm not sure exactly how useful my feedback will be, as I am still relatively inexperienced with Alamaze.(Last I checked, I was second to last in Valhalla!) That being said, here goes!

I like the middle ground that Independence offers. Anonymous prevents any cooperation whatsoever, which is good at preventing deliberate 3v1s, but conversely is crappy at mitigating unintentional 3v1s. I also rather like communicating with my fellow players, which isn't allowed in the Anonymous format. But while I like communicating with other players, I know my tendency is to only do so when I have something specific to talk about - like "So I noticed your large army showed up in my region. What's up?". That level of communication is probably on the low side for doing really well in Full Diplomacy setting. Independence hits a sweet spot for me.

To be clear, I like all three formats: Anonymous, Independence and Full Diplomacy. Each is a different flavor of Alamaze, good in their own way.

[Lord Alz]

My 2 cents.

Here are the special rules for this game:

1. No allies can be declared before Turn 6 and players should not exchange full turn results with non-allies, although intel can be shared;
2. No trading between kingdoms before Turn 6;
3. No Long term NAPS (longer than 6 turns) before Turn 6. There should be no forum controversy about "having an understanding with that player" before turn 6 that goes past turn six. You can agree to consider extending an agreement earlier, but no player is considered committed to that. Throughout history, no two countries have been "allies forever", we should have that more realistic and tenuous diplomacy;
4. No gifting to kingdoms throughout the game (no use of order #215);
5. No trade between kingdoms at Turn 6 or later at greater than 6 to 1 with a cap of 60k per any single trade order (so 10k food for 60k gold is the highest allowed).


I think it is a good compromise. Anon for me is fun but it takes the human element out, more like playing Alamaze vs a computer. I understand the draw with 3 v 1 so frustrating. This format allows for clause 3 which introduces the ability to truly apply a little gamesmanship. Short term "wink wink" alliances that might bear fruit or get eaten. It does not prevent more well known players from getting attention early. I like in Fall where you could mask your real persona, make part of the special 6 turn rule the ability to mask your real ID at least until turn 7. Lines are drawn already at least somewhat, on the downside it makes initial kingdom selection a bit more difficult.

[gkmetty]

A full Diplomacy game with JF and multi on one attacks, just another day at the office.

JF is the master at building and coordinating teams.  He must be a Salesmen or a Politician in real life.  If not he has promising options if he chooses to change.

This is also the reason I only play Anon and team games.

[Rogal]

This game I view as broken down into 4 player types.  Big winners (Of which there are 3 GN,UN,DW),  in house game players (2 of these RD,DE), Non podium players with  games under their belt and those that have vet to finish a full blown game.  I have only had contact with most players this game maybe once, and 3 empires (TR, EL, GI) more then once.  I felt  that was in the spirit of the game.  What I know with playing with JF is that he will not go after newer players in most cases.  My best guess is the DW targets were based on player experience and not the best tactical advantage.  The top player for target had to be either the GN or the UN since the portal connects the regions and the for mentioned players will give a challenge unlike  half of the players in the game.  No offence to Cloud, but I view JF and Vball to be the top players in this game, and  I really think for you two to get any real challenge you must fight each other until more players enter this game and get experienced.  That is my option only and I hope to see other newer players soon challenge the top seeded players soon.

[Cloud]

Bwa ha ha!  You cannot hope to comprehend my alchemies!  Yes, we have heard of such things as Game Theory development within your Shadow Brotherhood.  Do not not think, though, that our powers of transmutation will yield to your logic!

No offence to Cloud, but I view JF and Vball to be the top players in this game,

JF and Vball are objectively the best players in the game.  One holds the title for most wins, the other for the most Status Points - and both have retained these titles for some time.  No offense could possibly be taken from a simple statement of fact. 

[The Gray Mouser]

Slightly different perspective here from my first experience as The Demon Princes.

I was pleased the limited diplomacy seemed to work the way intended in the early game.  I had some diplomacy where I felt some of my neighbors were not going to invade Arcania in the first six turns and I was able to gain the region without much fuss.  Then I had to decide what to do next.

It's not a shock that The Demon Princes turn their attention to Runnimede.  We have now received turn 14 results.  I wanted to focus my attention on the Gnome, and he can attest to that.  But I didn't know the Underworld had gotten several PC's in the region, and I seemed to keep moving to his that I thought would be Gnome, and then moving away to not get the Underworld on the wrong side.  But on turn 13 a UN high emissary moved to one of my towns, and I saw some Gnome activity against the UN who I thought might have been allied, so then I thought if I'm going to take this region, with the Dwarf attacking me (yes, the DW attacking the DE) in Arcania, I can't just keep moving emissaries instead of Inciting or Usurping and it looked like the UN might be targeting my PC's.  So, through turn 14, the Demon Princes have Usurped one UN town.  Certainly no conspiracy. 

I have had zero correspondence with the Dwarves who are attacking me, or with the Gnome, who he and I are declared enemies and have been at war for most of the game, and zero with the Underworld.  Actually, I don't think I've had any diplomacy in quite awhile in this game.  I suppose I could put it on me that if I was a better diplomat to have reached out to the Underworld and asked him to disclose his PC's in the region, that Usurp could have been avoided and also retrospectively, it would have been nice to have the Underworld as an ally.  But again, I assumed UN and GN had a good chance of being allies so that would be tipping my hand.

My experience has been I attacked the GN (I rarely initiate wars but this is an experienced player and a logical place to go with the other circumstances in this game) and we have fought 1v1 up until the DW made a move with an army into Arcania, which I regard at this point as a nuisance and possibly a diversion rather than anything unfair.

While alliances will form, and should form, at least they weren't set until after Turn 6.   The only declared alliance is Giant and Warlock, but there is no gifting allowed in this Independence format, and not even any trading allowed between Gnome and Dwarf.  It's an odd couple, but nothing nefarious in this format.

[Jumpingfist]

(DW). I landed on the UN town in R3 early. Because of the rules I wanted no part in the UN being in my region. I told him to leave He just said do not attack me. So I attacked his group killing a wizard and the town killing and agent and Emmy.
Got a message I was now the one and only UN enemy this game. So figured better not let him grow and instead try to eliminate.

Let the GN know I was heading to R7 to hunt UN. Divined all towns and villages belonging to UN. Started taking out UN PCs. Scouted and found his capital. It was a village in the water.

Worked a deal with GN. It is a shame the DE saw through our rouse. Not going to discuss game benefit for GN and DW but both sides were/are getting something from the deal. Just because you can not trade gold or items does not mean there are not things to be traded.

[Jumpingfist]

Always a way to get around the rules if you try hard

I am curious how I am skirting the rules here.   Even after the DE told you I am attacking him and we have had no contact.   Your still pressing.   you are the second person to jump out and accuse me in the forum for some massive 3 or 4 on 1 when both times it is not the case 2 on 1 for coordination perhaps but to think it is purely some kind of friend thing is BS.  I had a need and GN had a need.   We worked something out that would help us both well after turn 6.  

It is not like Cloud signs up in most anon game right after I do.


RA,

If your reading please contact me at Maelman57@gmail.com.  I am only hunting UN in your region but further actions against me could bring me into your war with RD.


DW

[Airborne Ranger]

Someone please win this game with SVC soon!

[Jumpingfist]

We still need 5 turns before someone wins this thing. I too would like it to finish. Do to 1 order mistake I made early I have no chance to win really