The Choosing: 1st Alliance

[IMPERIAL_TARK]

During the 12 minute interim between my request for votes and subsequent post, I interacted with the owner of the game who informed me procedurally it will be difficult to set this one up as Anon, especially since he's playing.

Even with your vote, it is 2-1 Silent, with no word yet from Netstrider.

This isn't some cabal, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't jump to that conclusion. It is merely real-time interaction on a matter where the proprietor's preferences and limitations really ought to play at least some minor role.

At a bare minimum, letting him be the tiebreaker regardless of the previous default would seem to be pretty minor.

Hope that helps. I'm just a volunteer and don't really need to deal with aggravation for it, still happy to help but also happy to hand this off to someone if they prefer it.

if you don't understand where I'm coming from then so be it. but it was you who "jumped" to ending the vote when it was still unresolved not even bothering to wait for my vote (or Netstrider's). if you don't understand why what would be aggravating then perhaps you should ask why. and it does look like a cabal when in another recent game, after moderating the draft you jumped in at the end after seeing who was playing and what they had picked, to take one of the last positions leaving you knowing who all was playing what kingdoms and no other player were privy to that info. if running the draft is aggravating, then don't do it; but I'll continue to call out when I see preference and deference.

[Ry Vor]

In 3rd Cycle Alliance games, I believe the point is that there are four alliances and they should be known.  But in our setup process, there is no way to indicate "Green", for example, so we need to list the personas and what kingdoms they control. 

Another twist we want to try is after the 12 kingdoms are selected, each team can change the kingdom preliminarily selected in one of their three zones (the other two choices are fixed).  Then the final kingdoms selected will be revealed and the alliance to which they belong.

Thanks again to our volunteers for the extra value they provide in many aspects of Alamaze that Mike and I wouldn't be able to get to, including our players that have volunteered to serve as Mentors in Primeval games, and those (including Imperial Tark) that have introduced new players to the game.

[HeadHoncho]

During the 12 minute interim between my request for votes and subsequent post, I interacted with the owner of the game who informed me procedurally it will be difficult to set this one up as Anon, especially since he's playing.

Even with your vote, it is 2-1 Silent, with no word yet from Netstrider.

This isn't some cabal, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't jump to that conclusion. It is merely real-time interaction on a matter where the proprietor's preferences and limitations really ought to play at least some minor role.

At a bare minimum, letting him be the tiebreaker regardless of the previous default would seem to be pretty minor.

Hope that helps. I'm just a volunteer and don't really need to deal with aggravation for it, still happy to help but also happy to hand this off to someone if they prefer it.

if you don't understand where I'm coming from then so be it.  but it was you who "jumped" to ending the vote when it was still unresolved not even bothering to wait for my vote (or Netstrider's).  if you don't understand why what would be aggravating then perhaps you should ask why. and it does look like a cabal when in another recent game, after moderating the draft you jumped in at the end after seeing who was playing and what they had picked, to take one of the last positions leaving you knowing who all was playing what kingdoms and no other player were privy to that info. if running the draft is aggravating, then don't do it; but I'll continue to call out when I see preference and deference.

Dude, you are really something else. I didn't even want to PLAY in that game but I joined in so it could get started! My own preference was Silent but two other players really wanted Anon, and no one else cared, even with the caveat that I did the draft. You had every opportunity to raise an objection at that point, but you said you were fine with it. For you to raise it now seems bizarre.

I'd be glad to give 307 over as a standby, if anyone wants it. Because I really don't care, I was just trying to help the rest of you. Just like I spent hours getting you up to speed in this game, just to help you, only for you to act like this towards me and make negative implications about my character.

No good deed goes unpunished, I suppose!

[Jumpingfist]

HH, LD and a few others really make some of these formats possible. Always offering there own personal time to help there fellow players enjoy a game. HH has always gone out of his way to help even sorting out issues with games already formed that he helped draft.

Try not to jump on an issue to quickly sometimes it is just a timing thing. (Says the only guy with a warning next to his name ). Remember just because it is posted within a minute or two after your own comment it does not mean they are ignoring you. You can not read new comments while working on a post. Very possible someone starts typing then has to answer to a greater authority (the wife) then come back to finish there though, but still has not yet seen the updates. Anyway hopefully just a dead issue now and we can just get back to enjoying the new release of 3rd Cycle.

[IMPERIAL_TARK]

the reason that I don't is that I've learned that it does not matter. when the "cabal" decides something, then that's how its going to go, and if/when someone raises an objection then the "cabal" just chimes in that its no big deal. this above is just another example, and is the "straw" for me speaking up. a vote was called for, the veteran players voted, and the before the two newer players voted, a decision was made....... our votes clearly irrelevant. in many games, there are votes asked for, and those players that are on-line the most, get the most say so.
so yes, I think its VERY inappropriate that the drafter, who was privy to all the information related to the draft jumps into the game at the end and then gets to play with it. I wanted to object but when I previously objected, it was overruled, so I learned, my vote didn't matter. just getting very tired of it. the rules should be established up front, and EVERYONE should have to honor them, and not have these votes on the fly, which are often decided before some players even get on-line and have a chance to reply (like me and Netstrider today); nor should a drafter of one of their drafts be allowed to jump into that game where they are privy to information that ALL players are not privy to. whether you use that information or not, it gives the "appearance" of impropriety, favoritism, deference, and preference. and in the long run, that will start to kill off your player base. and if you or Rick want to get angry or indignant for me pointing it out so be it. but I suspect that this perception has caused more than a few players to leave the game.

[HeadHoncho]

the reason that I don't is that I've learned that it does not matter.  when the "cabal" decides something, then that's how its going to go, and if/when someone raises an objection then the "cabal" just chimes in that its no big deal.  this above is just another example, and is the "straw" for me speaking up.  a vote was called for, the veteran players voted, and the before the two newer players voted, a decision was made....... our votes clearly irrelevant.  in many games, there are votes asked for, and those players that are on-line the most, get the most say so.
so yes, I think its VERY inappropriate that the drafter, who was privy to all the information related to the draft jumps into the game at the end and then gets to play with it.  I wanted to object but when I previously objected, it was overruled, so I learned, my vote didn't matter.  just getting very tired of it.  the rules should be established up front, and EVERYONE should have to honor them, and not have these votes on the fly, which are often decided before some players even get on-line and have a chance to reply (like me and Netstrider today); nor should a drafter of one of their drafts be allowed to jump into that game where they are privy to information that ALL players are not privy to.  whether you use that information or not, it gives the "appearance" of impropriety, favoritism, deference, and preference.  and in the long run, that will start to kill off your player base.  and if you or Rick want to get angry or indignant for me pointing it out so be it.  but I suspect that this perception has caused more than a few players to leave the game.

SMH.


In the Anon/Silent matter, after having been advised of the overall issue and the fact that I was trying to help start the game as the drafter, you said, and I quote, "Either is fine with me."

Based on your quoted post above, obviously, you lied when you said that.

I'm sorry that some mistaken impression of a cabal pressured you into telling a blatant lie. Had you spoken up, I would have either stayed in the game as Silent or bowed out.

Even now, before your latest kind and gracious missive, I've offered Enari to take that game over. Because, once again, I didn't even want to play in it. And had two other players not spoken up so strongly about wanting it to be Anon rather than Silent, that wouldn't have been an issue, either.

Are you sure this isn't really about something else? Because on the surface, it doesn't seem to add up.

[IMPERIAL_TARK]

the reason that I don't is that I've learned that it does not matter.  when the "cabal" decides something, then that's how its going to go, and if/when someone raises an objection then the "cabal" just chimes in that its no big deal.  this above is just another example, and is the "straw" for me speaking up.  a vote was called for, the veteran players voted, and the before the two newer players voted, a decision was made....... our votes clearly irrelevant.  in many games, there are votes asked for, and those players that are on-line the most, get the most say so.
so yes, I think its VERY inappropriate that the drafter, who was privy to all the information related to the draft jumps into the game at the end and then gets to play with it.  I wanted to object but when I previously objected, it was overruled, so I learned, my vote didn't matter.  just getting very tired of it.  the rules should be established up front, and EVERYONE should have to honor them, and not have these votes on the fly, which are often decided before some players even get on-line and have a chance to reply (like me and Netstrider today); nor should a drafter of one of their drafts be allowed to jump into that game where they are privy to information that ALL players are not privy to.  whether you use that information or not, it gives the "appearance" of impropriety, favoritism, deference, and preference.  and in the long run, that will start to kill off your player base.  and if you or Rick want to get angry or indignant for me pointing it out so be it.  but I suspect that this perception has caused more than a few players to leave the game.

SMH.


In the Anon/Silent matter, after having been advised of the overall issue and the fact that I was trying to help start the game as the drafter, you said, and I quote, "Either is fine with me."

Based on your quoted post above, obviously, you lied when you said that.

I'm sorry that some mistaken impression of a cabal pressured you into telling a blatant lie. Had you spoken up, I would have either stayed in the game as Silent or bowed out.

Even now, before your latest kind and gracious missive, I've offered Enari to take that game over. Because, once again, I didn't even want to play in it. And had two other players not spoken up so strongly about wanting it to be Anon rather than Silent, that wouldn't have been an issue, either.

Are you sure this isn't really about something else? Because on the surface, it doesn't seem to add up.

So now I'm a liar and I'm not sure I know what I'm talking about?

Wow, you are really making a clear impression (and my point) on what happens when a player speaks up with a different perspective from the "cabal". I didn't speak up because it would not have mattered. Has me and Netstrider not having our votes accounted for mattered here? No. Instead you simply argue why its ridiculous to even suggest that there is the perception of impropriety and try to turn this back on me. This exactly my point. When everything is said and done, the cabal will get what it wanted, other players learn to either accept it or leave, and certainly they learn to say quiet on the forum and not support a different viewpoint or you will be labeled a liar and get dismissive attacks.

At any rate, I'm done with this. So knock yourself out with next 47 posts.

[Ry Vor]

Alright.  I'm calling an end to this line.  Pre-warning that deletes will occur. 

Let's get back on topic and let's recall the no personal attacks proviso.

[Netstrider]

Sorry for not being online to answer earlier!

HH - thanks so much as always for taking time out of your saturday to run the draft. It is much appreciated.

[DuPont]

Once again, HH, I would like to say that I appreciate all the work you do without compensation. Volunteers like you really make it possible for this game to run. I understand what it's like to get one's dandruff up - it's certainly happened to me a time or two - but I get a great deal of joy out of playing and I try to focus on when I get cross at something else.