A slog instead of flight?

[Lord Thanatos]

I realize we are extremely early in The Choosing but the new game feels somehow less exhilarating.

In 2nd Cycle each new setup provided hours of contemplation over who to attack, how to split my resources, and what new tactics to surprise my opponents with. There were enough starting resources to simultaneously control my region and attack a neighbor if I chose.

Now it seems like I have plenty of new toys but collectively there is less synergy. Fewer resources come from regional control. There are fewer emissaries and starting groups are smaller. The early attacking options are severely curtailed. While this is probably intentional is it worthwhile.

I also find the arbitrary nature of waiting until turn four for various actions to be ... odd.

Maybe things will change as we all become more familiar.

Any other initial impressions out there beyond an appreciation for the newness of it all. I readily admit new is cool!

[Ry Vor]

Yes, all intentional.  I would call 3rd Cycle more of The Thinking Man's Alamaze. 

It's easily my best work, anyway, and of course, now supported by a great user interface as well as terrific code by Uncle Mike.

Players will need to adapt their 2nd Cycle strategies to all the new possibilities of 3rd Cycle, which would take pages here on the forum to summarize (and around 100 pages to document).

Speaking of which, the hope is we'll have 3rd Cycle documentation posted by Monday.

[unclemike]

I realize we are extremely early in The Choosing but the new game feels somehow less exhilarating.

In 2nd Cycle each new setup provided hours of contemplation over who to attack, how to split my resources, and what new tactics to surprise my opponents with. There were enough starting resources to simultaneously control my region and attack a neighbor if I chose.

Now it seems like I have plenty of new toys but collectively there is less synergy. Fewer resources come from regional control. There are fewer emissaries and starting groups are smaller. The early attacking options are severely curtailed. While this is probably intentional is it worthwhile.

I also find the arbitrary nature of waiting until turn four for various actions to be ... odd.

Maybe things will change as we all become more familiar.

Any other initial impressions out there beyond an appreciation for the newness of it all. I readily admit new is cool!

I both agree and disagree with LT to some extent.

Agree: 3rd Cycle games will start off a bit slower due to the fact that regions are no longer contested as they once were in 2nd Cycle where you have two kingdoms in the same region fighting for control from the start (so less exciting to a degree)

Disagree: 3rd Cycle does not have fewer options/lesser synergy but rather just the opposite in both what actions to do in a turn and what strategy to develop when going against a different opponent

For example Oakendell is no longer just the Elves as in 2nd Cycle so a different strategy will be needed if you're considering expanding in that area (which is true now for every region so strategies will vary from game to game).

For synergy, there are all kinds of additional combinations now among actions like a priestess' ability to summon an avenging angel to help attack a pc/group which one would never consider before in a 2nd Cycle game (of a priestess helping out in battle).

Or if your agents are tied up doing stuff, your wizard can cast Dire Wolf Familiar to provide some protection for the group's leaders/wizards/artifacts as a counteragent/recon so your agents can do other things.

Or changing a battle tactic like issuing a Flanking attack (instead of Determined Attack) which does enormous damage if you combine it with the proper troop composition from the various companion types in the game.

So I agree that the beginning part of a 3rd Cycle game may be slower and less exciting compared to 2nd Cycle but after that initial phase, the game should branch out into a myriad of different tactics, spells, and abilities working together to enhance a particular outcome or to counter another's effect which should result in a more exciting game. I haven't played that many 2nd Cycle games compared to the rest of you but I would say that 3rd Cycle has a greater potential of creating a more exciting game than it's predecessor.

[Lord Diamond]

While there are a few things I would change (I will list them below) I have to say that I am very much enjoying 3rd Cycle. I can see why LT dislikes the slower start; that's because he likes to attack very early in the game and now he just doesn't have resources to make a meaningful turn 1 attack. 3rd Cycle does not offer as many early game strategies, but has a whole lot more late game options.

What don't I love?

-565 only working in the wild. It is HARD to plop an army in the wilderness to recruit some companions. You can't even get them from your capital! This sucks. It really sucks if you are a dragon who cannot use 560 or recruit any troops from a pc.

-Fewer pcs in a region. Even when you control a region, resources are limited. The Centauria Map, especially, needs mre ocs per region.

Actually, that's about all that is bugging me. This is a great game and I am even enjoying the order entry site.

[Ry Vor]

I may have mentioned this, tactics and strategy are different in 3rd Cycle than 2nd Cycle.  It's not a tweak to 2nd Cycle - it took 2 years to do.

Intentionally reduced the likelihood of the rush tactic.  It benefits no one to have a player virtually eliminated after turn 5.  Good bye and good luck in life, player.  We need to add players, not subtract them. 

The strategies and difficult decisions in 3rd Cycle are myriad.  You can't just do your 2nd Cycle standard game plan.  Companions are intended to be difficult to get, and to augment a force, not to be the core. 

It will take months both for players to adapt, and then we will make an evaluation of how kingdoms stand.

Sort of like the NFL draft:  you can't really evaluate who did well the day after the draft, it may take years.

Speaking of which, Dallas about up to the podium.  I'm a Cowboy, Baby!

[Jumpingfist]

I find dragons can recruit after plundering a PC.

For me likely the least favorite part of 3rd cycle is the math game of figuring out if your at the correct ratio so you can get your units promoted. Bloodied is silly but really has little effect because you need to loose 15% plus of your unit if you want them to begin getting promoted.

Overall still a fun game. I really like how kingdoms match up well vs some and bad vs others.

[Ry Vor]

This just general to all, not to a player.  Is a philosophy thing, but it is discussed here.

You need to sustain at least 5% casualties to have a chance of brigades gaining experience.  This is blooded.  It is a real thing in history.  We have covered this before.  A group cannot go against a village and have a wizard tornado it and expect the brigades to advance in experience.  I don't get why this has been difficult to come to grips with, or why Companions are not living in PC's or why it is a turn 4 earliest.  They are not your guys: imagine the first four turns are to establish relations.  Only Green brigades have a chance to advance, even if the group is blooded, when attacking a village.  Attack towns, cities and groups to advance experience.  No, it is not stupid to have to take casualties to advance in experience, and no, you don't have to sacrifice troops to play the game.  Go ahead and nuke the PC, take no casualties.  You will win the battle but your brigades won't advance.  Its another decision to make now, and depends on what you have in mind next to do.  It is also not expected there will be many Elite brigades around before turn 10 at the earliest.

The concern expressed by some on the dragons.  We will see about the games that began recently with Red Dragons and the changes made to the position, so that's about after #510 or so.  We might instead have players complain they are too strong.  Again, give it a few months and games under the belt before making sweeping conclusions on the kingdoms or how the games will play out.

[Lord Diamond]

I find dragons can recruit after plundering a PC.  

You bastard!

[Jumpingfist]

There are two requirements for getting promoted. Bloodied and reaching a certain phase in combat. It is the phase in combat that is actually the limiting factor and generally is not met unless you loose 15% in battle. Yes it worked for the Romans and they likely gained experience doing it. Having served in the military I am glad we had no leaders that feel this way when it comes to what it takes to become a veteran or more experience soldier.

[Jumpingfist]

I find dragons can recruit after plundering a PC.  

You bastard!

I was going to comment how resources would be better if some jackass was not running around destroying the villages.