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**Ry Vor** · (This post was last modified: 12-18-2016, 06:00 PM by Ry Vor.)

(12-18-2016, 04:10 PM)Atuan Wrote: Rick I'm assuming the BL only has 4 groups and not 5 like the RD. and thank you and everyone for the Intel

An intention in the next release (not the Jan changes) is that all Military Tradition kingdoms like Sacred Order, Rangers and Amazons will have 5 groups, and a couple that have them now, like Underworld, will be back to 4.

Some special abilities will still apply, such as RD having 5 groups and Tyrant may (undecided) have 6, but the Black Dragons likely stay at 4. Black Dragons will gain double Foreknowledge. All the details still have to be sifted through the gray matter. Again, this is future stuff, not for the 2016 Championship.

Mainly for the January Update (that is this thread, right?) it will be setup changes by looking at Valhalla and anything else that stands out like the buzz about Dome of Invulnerability. I will remind that the Halflings recently had a Power 3 wizard added to their other starting Power 3. This is generally around the theme that the Halflings attract some powerful characters ala LOTR, not that Halfling wizards are powerful.

**Drogo** · 12-18-2016, 05:59 PM

Good call on giving AM 5 groups. I like the TY at 6 groups as well.

**IMPERIAL_TARK** · 12-18-2016, 06:15 PM

The DW with a magic cap of 2 is also too limiting. It should at least be a 3 so they can gain Presence and Fertile Fields. Perhaps they have a special ability like their 599 Order (to build Walls), that they can take down a Dome of Invulnerability wherever they have a group with a P3+ wizard at a cost of X gold.

Having HPs be able to cast certain spells (perhaps Kingdom specific) would also be nice too.

**Atuan** · 12-18-2016, 07:52 PM

(12-18-2016, 05:51 PM)Ry Vor Wrote:
(12-18-2016, 04:10 PM)Atuan Wrote: Rick I'm assuming the BL only has 4 groups and not 5 like the RD. and thank you and everyone for the Intel

An intention in the next release (not the Jan changes) is that all Military Tradition kingdoms like Sacred Order, Rangers and Amazons will have 5 groups, and a couple that have them now, like Underworld, will be back to 4.

Some special abilities will still apply, such as RD having 5 groups and Tyrant may (undecided) have 6, but the Black Dragons likely stay at 4. Black Dragons will gain double Foreknowledge. All the details still have to be sifted through the gray matter. Again, this is future stuff, not for the 2016 Championship.

Mainly for the January Update (that is this thread, right?) it will be setup changes by looking at Valhalla and anything else that stands out like the buzz about Dome of Invulnerability. I will remind that the Halflings recently had a Power 3 wizard added to their other starting Power 3. This is generally around the theme that the Halflings attract some powerful characters ala LOTR, not that Halfling wizards are powerful.

Yes I realized this wont be for the 2016 championships and wouldn't expect it to be.

are you trying to make them more mage like? I understand not trying to make them into the RD but it feels as if they need something more a 5th group could go a long ways. Guess I will have a better feel for them soon enough.

**Ry Vor** · 12-18-2016, 10:37 PM

We call the Black Dragons a balanced kingdom with wings. Got to use their speed, intercept when needed, should be the first to know the lay of the land, can easily get another Phoenix brigade. Can take PC's with the 20% bonus of flight. I'll be curious how they do under Atuan.

**Ry Vor** · 12-21-2016, 10:09 PM

Any seriously founded objection to no spells stacking related to combat? One per group per target per turn. So three wizards could cast Earthquake, Tornado and Firestrike, but not three Tornadoes, etc. Dispel Magic possibly an exception.

Only one Dire Wolf, Avenging Angel per group or target.

12-21-2016, 10:42 PM

I don't believe stacking battle spells is the issue. I think facing army groups with 3 P7 Liches on turn 15 is the issue.

I'm afraid if you restrict the battle spells it will cripple the lesser magic using kingdoms.

For example, the CI finally gets a few wizards up to P4 and now only one of them can throw a spell in the battle because the spells cant stack.

**Ry Vor** · 12-21-2016, 11:45 PM

I started with a few spells that were restricted to one per group, then thought that would be confusing to not be consistent. So trying to not put a burden on players as to which spells can be repeated. The main effort wasn't so much Tornadoes as it was Summon Death or Kill wizard, which hurts say, Cimmerians more than Warlocks.

Of course that was just one component. Other changes coming too.

**unclemike** · (This post was last modified: 12-22-2016, 01:20 AM by unclemike.)

If you asked me, stacking of battle spells isn't the problem but spell density is set too high. Three earthquakes by pwr-6+ wizards are devastating for an opposing Army Group-sized group due to the density's 250% damage multiplier. Either tone down spell density or get rid of it entirely in favor of creating high level combat spells (like disintegrate or ice storm) and you'll fix the issue while allowing the freedom to cast any spell any number of times against a group.

About the summon death spell, I really don't like restricting it to just one death spell per group but would rather change the death spell to not be 100% effective (or create a counterspell to it). So a pwr-6 wizard may have a 60% chance of the death spell triggering while a pwr-8 has a 80% chance. I think that would be better than having the restriction of one death spell per group because that policy may become problematic in the future.

Especially if a new counterspell is developed in a future release (like a powerful Mordenkainen's Disfunction spell that prevents all death/kill spells from affecting your group) then your one spell per group policy would become an unnecessary and confusing restriction in the game. About kill leader/wizard spells, the game already has a nice counterspell to it so it shouldn't be restricted against an opposing group anyway.

So I'm in favor of dropping spell density for higher level combat spells and establishing new counterspells for any excessively potent spells (like summon death) than having a policy of limiting the number of spells that may be cast against an opposing group.

**Ry Vor** · 12-22-2016, 02:13 AM

The backdrop for combat spell density is that players felt combat spells were not relevant in mid to late game in 2nd Cycle. So we introduced battle density for combat spells in 3rd Cycle. Now battle spells are once again relevant. Damage spells are based on a value x Power level, and now x density. I think it makes sense and makes the spells again meaningful.

But to your previously written point about too many Earthquakes, etc, now you can only have one per group. More imagination will be required in planning spell casting.