The DK goes or I go

[unclemike]

As mentioned earlier, there are counteractions possible in dealing with the Deathknight plague.

Yes, this new kingdom has this special effect on turn 1, but so do other kingdoms like the Demon Princes' demonic denigrate ability. That may be done on turn 1, and on every turn thereafter, without a way of preventing it from happening (much like a plague). So, why not protest their special ability as well? There's no way to prevent or dispel the Demon Princes' ability, but there are countermeasures possible, much like there are countermeasures possible in dealing with the Deathknights. Situations like the Demon Princes and others are ignored, while others like the Deathknights are contested.

You mentioned that you don't want Alamaze to become an apocalyptic game with the loss of life, but what about plunder and/or meteor strikes? Those decimate the census population of a region far greater than the effects of a plague ever will. I guess those don't count. Yes, they are countermeasures to those, but also, there are countermeasures for the Deathknights.

After reading your posts, you're just picking and choosing what is right or not about the game. You're entitled to your opinion of course, but to say that the game is totally ruined just because you don't like something, well, that just isn't valid and presents an incorrect view of the game.

[DuPont]

As mentioned earlier, there are counteractions possible in dealing with the Deathknight plague.

You can say that until you're blue in the face but that doesn't make it true.

Yes, this new kingdom has this special effect on turn 1, but so do other kingdoms like the Demon Princes' demonic denigrate ability. That may be done on turn 1, and on every turn thereafter, without a way of preventing it from happening (much like a plague). So, why not protest their special ability as well? There's no way to prevent or dispel the Demon Princes' ability, but there are countermeasures possible, much like there are countermeasures possible in dealing with the Deathknights. Situations like the Demon Princes and others are ignored, while others like the Deathknights are contested.

Apart from the fact that the Demon Prince's ability is one that needs to be actively used and can only target one specific kingdom, yeah, exactly the same (eyeroll).

You mentioned that you don't want Alamaze to become an apocalyptic game with the loss of life, but what about plunder and/or meteor strikes? Those decimate the census population of a region far greater than the effects of a plague ever will. I guess those don't count. Yes, they are countermeasures to those, but also, there are countermeasures for the Deathknights.

Plunder and meteor strike both target one pop center at a time, are common enough plot points in heroic fantasy (and even the Bible!), and can both be defended against. They are simply not the same thing.

After reading your posts, you're just picking and choosing what is right or not about the game. You're entitled to your opinion of course, but to say that the game is totally ruined just because you don't like something, well, that just isn't valid and presents an incorrect view of the game.

Look, I get that you are as emotionally invested in the DK as I am repulsed by them. I'm saying that the DK totally ruins the game FOR ME. You don't get to tell me if my opinion is 'valid' or 'incorrect' because it's mine and applies only to my reaction to the game. I am not able to enjoy any game that has the DK in it so I'm not going to play any game with the DK in it. End of story. I wouldn't play a game with the DK in it for free and I'm certainly not going to pay for something I won't enjoy.

[Ry Vor]

I am hearing you, DuPont.

I would suggest we start some games without either the Death Knights available, or perhaps without other new kingdoms as well.

We have done that in the past with, for example, the Red Dragons, and perhaps the Demon Princes, particularly in Confederations (two kingdoms controlled by six players0 or team games, where for example, the Red Dragons are not concerned with supplies/food as the little allies take care of that for Big Red.

Just a brief digression, we have historically had kind of a rotation of sentiment as to whether a given kingdom is too powerful or too weak, with particularly a rotation of kingdoms as most favored.   To invoke the Red Dragons again, they have been considered at different times, both too strong or too weak.

Also, if we think back, Alamaze was initially a game where interplayer diplomacy was a fairly big element to the game, and we kind of got rid of it due to a wolfpack mentality of quickly having a three on one gang assassination, and "power gamers" out diplomacizing the less industrious.

Initially with this release, almost all the new stuff in it to Mike's credit, we were going to be ready to make adjustments as results and comments came in.

To an extent, this situation reminds me a bit of Magic the Gathering having a new release and players digesting new abilities, and Wizards of the Coast and Richard Garfield admitting from time to time certain cards were "broken" and restricted or banned, and others became more powerful or forgotten as the new abilities changed the balance. Even the great Richard Garfield didn't always anticipate all the interactions and the implications of some combinations.

The game is for the players, after all.

[unclemike]

The game is for the players of course, but let's not have one player with the loudest voice drown out the others. In this thread, there have been several positive comments about the Deathknights, and one neutral, who doesn't feel very strongly either way. Don't let one loud voice determine the game's mechanics when there are others who feel differently about it.

This brings up another topic that Rick and I had over the years, should we change game mechanics due to a situation that arose due to the low player base? In other words, sacrifice game balance and overall value of interest of the game for the sake of placating a single or low number of players?

It's a no-win situation. If instead Alamaze enjoyed a healthy 500-player base, how much attention do you think this single voice of concern over a minor matter would even be considered? Exactly...

[RELLGAR]

This is a game limited by orders, I think the main problem with the DK plague ability is it doesn't require an order, but to counter it does. Another aspect is you can't turn it off, so it affects and annoys other players, even your allies. Correcting or limiting those aspects would do well with keeping the DK unique and acceptable.

[Ruingurth]

I'll make this suggestion. Temple gives immunity to the pop center, Great temple to the region.

R

[DuPont]

I'll make this suggestion. Temple gives immunity to the pop center, Great temple to the region.

R

That's a good idea, though it would be even better combined with making the ability not kick in until turn 4 and make it an ordered effect rather than an innate one.