Game 5644 Maximumus Dominus begins…

[Ry Vor]

I would admit the calculation a player makes to incite rebellion or usurp control is a weakness in presentation that we have gotten by with because we have a steady base of experienced players.

New players would likely be a bit bewildered with the political actions because first, as far as I iknow, no other game has anything like the Alamaze feudal political model, and second, the Maelstrom update to the model was significant and is not well documented for players.

A down and dirty rule of thumb to get close is just shirt everything in the Political Actions Chart from The Choosing, one column right.  So if your noble is facing Tolerant reaction, use the Suspicious column in the chart.

There are at least two changes to know from The Choosing:  PC resistance is about 20% stronger.  A city that had base resistance of 5.0 in The Choosing has a 6.0 in Maelstrom.  Similar for towns and villages.  I believe Minor Cities have a 5.0 vs major city 6.0, Mike might confirm and maybe has a complete table we can share.  The changes were made because the political actions like taking a city with two nobles was a little two easy, almost any kingdom could send a Prince and Duke and Rebel / Usurp.  Now kingdoms with political advantages like the High Elves might still do that, but only politically attuned kingdoms.  The rest will want to bring along a Provincial Governor to Stir Unrest as well, or will resolve to having two nobles, unmolested for two turns to get the job done.

The other, similar effect change is regional reaction values increased.  Again, it was felt the most powerful single order that could be given in Alamaze was having the King enamor to Friendly.  The value for Friendly was 1.0 in The Choosing.  So the reaction is multiplied by the resistance, we will leave out traits and PC improvements and artifacts that can modify, so in simple terms, a city in a friendly region had resistance of 5.0 x. 1.0 = 5 in The Choosing.   In The Choosing, so in the chart, Tolerant is 2.0, Suspicious is 3.0, and Hostile is 4.0.  In Maelstrom, Loyal is 1.0, Friendly is 1.5, Tolerant is 2.5, Suspicious is 3.5, Hatred is 4.5.  

I would have liked to have seen an interactive tool in the order entry site so a player could input values there and get the "given current information" predicted result, rather than having to refer to a chart.  Of course, remember with the chart there are those other variables that are not considered in the table (traits, artifacts, maintain status quo and stir unrest, PC improvements).

[Brekk]

I would admit the calculation a player makes to incite rebellion or usurp control is a weakness in presentation that we have gotten by with because we have a steady base of experienced players.

Weakness of presentation goes back to what I was saying about a week ago:

As for the complexity of the game, while there is a LOT of stuff for players to remember, if they ever hope to seriously compete against the best players in the game, I do feel as if the complexity, itself, is manageable. More than manageable, actually. Documentation, presentation, and organization are key, for all of them are instrumental in facilitating the ability of human beings, aka the players of Alamaze, to better and more quickly grasp the information presented to them, in the first instance, and to better enable them to retain said information, in the second place. The "master key" to it all is in transitioning numerous different things into a more intuitive approach.

The presentation of information is a bane! Yeah, it's like fighting a Balrog. It really doesn't have to be this way.

SOURCE: https://kingdomsofarcania.net/forum/show...8#pid82888


It also goes back to a question that you, yourself, asked more than three years ago:

How about the presentation of turn results - not so important?

SOURCE: https://kingdomsofarcania.net/forum/show...3#pid63193

HOW information is presented can make ALL of the difference in the world. For the very reason that Alamaze is as complex of a game as it is, all the more important, then, for presentation to rise to the occasion. Otherwise, your chances of losing new players unnecessarily increases.

New players would likely be a bit bewildered with the political actions because first, as far as I iknow, no other game has anything like the Alamaze feudal political model, and second, the Maelstrom update to the model was significant and is not well documented for players.

Fall of Rome certainly had a very similar political model. You designed it. I played it. So, the confusion isn't caused by any "feudal political model." Separate and apart from that, if an update is significant, then it stands to reason that it also needs to be well-documented. Otherwise, cracks form that you'll invariably lose players that fall through such cracks, cracks of an unnecessary nature.

A down and dirty rule of thumb to get close is just shirt everything in the Political Actions Chart from The Choosing, one column right.  So if your noble is facing Tolerant reaction, use the Suspicious column in the chart.

And how is any new player to Alamaze supposed to know that they should rely upon documentation from a different cycle of Alamaze, in order to play 4th Cycle Maelstrom?

You, as the game's designer, would know this. The newcomer to Alamaze lacks the foundational basis of the knowledge that you already possess, by virtue of your status as the game's designer. It also doesn't escape my attention that this bit of insight comes from you, and not from the other players in the game. Expecting newcomers to Alamaze to infer anything from some other, secondary source is an inherently problematic proposition. What new players need is clarity, not rituals of inference.

There are at least two changes to know from The Choosing:  PC resistance is about 20% stronger.  A city that had base resistance of 5.0 in The Choosing has a 6.0 in Maelstrom.  Similar for towns and villages.  I believe Minor Cities have a 5.0 vs major city 6.0, Mike might confirm and maybe has a complete table we can share.

To a newcomer, those 5.0 and 6.0 figures mean nothing, absolutely nothing. And especially if they've never played "The Choosing," before, what is their basis, then, for inferring anything from those numbers?

The changes were made because the political actions like taking a city with two nobles was a little two easy, almost any kingdom could send a Prince and Duke and Rebel / Usurp.  Now kingdoms with political advantages like the High Elves might still do that, but only politically attuned kingdoms.  The rest will want to bring along a Provincial Governor to Stir Unrest as well, or will resolve to having two nobles, unmolested for two turns to get the job done.

Understood - and thank you for sharing that tidbit with me. Where in the actual documentation for 4th Cycle Maelstrom specifically explain that, though?

The other, similar effect change is regional reaction values increased.  Again, it was felt the most powerful single order that could be given in Alamaze was having the King enamor to Friendly.  The value for Friendly was 1.0 in The Choosing.  So the reaction is multiplied by the resistance, we will leave out traits and PC improvements and artifacts that can modify, so in simple terms, a city in a friendly region had resistance of 5.0 x. 1.0 = 5 in The Choosing.   In The Choosing, so in the chart, Tolerant is 2.0, Suspicious is 3.0, and Hostile is 4.0.  In Maelstrom, Loyal is 1.0, Friendly is 1.5, Tolerant is 2.5, Suspicious is 3.5, Hatred is 4.5.

Thank you.

I would have liked to have seen an interactive tool in the order entry site so a player could input values there and get the "given current information" predicted result, rather than having to refer to a chart.  Of course, remember with the chart there are those other variables that are not considered in the table (traits, artifacts, maintain status quo and stir unrest, PC improvements).

Understood. From my perspective, something is clearly needed, in order to place new players of Alamaze on a better initial footing.

A big, thick rulebook is all fine and dandy, and it has its place in the overall scheme of things, but simultaneously, new players can easily get lost in all of that mass bulk of information presented to them.

To get new players, those wholly unfamiliar with any facet or aspect of the game, up and running quickly, what's the plan? Sending emissaries to population centers to rebel and usurp population centers strikes me as quintessential basics of the core game that is Alamaze. What a new player needs is not an excess of information to get lost in, but rather, the distilled essence of the game's basics.

How long does it take to master the entire rulebook for Alamaze 4th Cycle Maelstrom? From the looks of it, it appears that no one that I have encountered, as of yet, has attained such a degree of mastery. If they had, I wouldn't need the game's designer to explain certain of the game's basics to me.

My critiques and criticisms of Alamaze aside, Alamaze actually has quite a lot going for it. If it didn't, I wouldn't be here posting any of this, right now. Alamaze's design and its programming are better than its presentation. It's failing on presentation, as much as on anything else.

Granted, you do need traffic flow, in order to gain an ongoing influx of new players. Gamers who are not aware of Alamaze's existence will never try the game, much less become long-term adherents to it.

[Brekk]

IMPRESSION

No point in clicking the Ready button, when you first begin to play Alamaze. This way, you maximize the amount of time that you have to prepare your turn orders for the next turn.

Just make sure that you have a set of orders saved, BEFORE the designated time for the turn orders to be processed expires! That way, your orders will get processed, whether you've clicked on that Ready button or not.

[Brekk]

I thought that I had figured out how to recover an artifact, but sending an agent with a 960 - Steal Artifact order turned out to be NOT the way to do it.

Instead, I have to send a group.

Major feeling of disappointment sets in. So, a last minute change of orders was in orders.

I'm playing the right kingdom in this game, because I'm definitely feeling forgotten, right about now.

Fortunately, the smell of that meatloaf that my wife is cooking provides a nice distraction from my Alamaze sorrows.

[Brekk]

I checked the Ready screen, and see that DuPont has already issued his turn orders for Turn #4.

Clearly, he knows what he is doing. Unfortunately for him, his turn orders aren't going to get processed early.

[Zar@shand]

Maximus,

I see in another thread you said you had been attacked in this game @ turn 3. Are you saying that some nation has taken your pop centers or attacked your armies at this early stage?

I really hope that this is not the case, as to jump on a brand new player so early is really not on. I am also a new player, 1 completed game and it is really tough, although I was given until turn 17 until I was attacked, you are up against players that have played loads of games. Clearly what would make it easier is veterans game and newbe games, but that clearly requires more numbers.

[uncledarkside2]

Maximus,

I see in another thread you said you had been attacked in this game @ turn 3. Are you saying that some nation has taken your pop centers or attacked your armies at this early stage?

I really hope that this is not the case, as to jump on a brand new player so early is really not on. I am also a new player, 1 completed game and it is really tough, although I was given until turn 17 until I was attacked, you are up against players that have played loads of games. Clearly what would make it easier is veterans game and newbe games, but that clearly requires more numbers.

An attack in zanthia. I believe would be unwarranted in this situation. Your outlying village and town that are not in zanthia are typically considered free game because they are in someone else’s region.

[Zar@shand]

Maximus,

I see in another thread you said you had been attacked in this game @ turn 3. Are you saying that some nation has taken your pop centers or attacked your armies at this early stage?

I really hope that this is not the case, as to jump on a brand new player so early is really not on. I am also a new player, 1 completed game and it is really tough, although I was given until turn 17 until I was attacked, you are up against players that have played loads of games. Clearly what would make it easier is veterans game and newbe games, but that clearly requires more numbers.

An attack in zanthia. I believe would be unwarranted in this situation. Your outlying village and town that are not in zanthia are typically considered free game because they are in someone else’s region.

Just to clarify, I agree if your pop center in not in your home region, other players will take it and not expect your to retaliate. Likewise you can do so in your home region.

[Brekk]

Maximus,

I see in another thread you said you had been attacked in this game @ turn 3. Are you saying that some nation has taken your pop centers or attacked your armies at this early stage?

I really hope that this is not the case, as to jump on a brand new player so early is really not on. I am also a new player, 1 completed game and it is really tough, although I was given until turn 17 until I was attacked, you are up against players that have played loads of games. Clearly what would make it easier is veterans game and newbe games, but that clearly requires more numbers.

It's OK. I don't mind. It just turns out that what players think, at times, isn't actually what the case really is.

[Brekk]

Just to clarify, I agree if your pop center in not in your home region, other players will take it and not expect your to retaliate.  Likewise you can do so in your home region.

Just curious, but if a kingdom takes a population center from another kingdom, why would they not expect retaliation to transpire? Because it complicates things?