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Game 5644 Maximumus Dominus begins…
I have just finished my first game of Alamaze as the Tyrant and so thought it might be useful to add some of my experiences as a new player.

As a new player i have had a very enjoyable game, however there are some area's i believe it could be improved for a new player.

As a new player you do not know how important gold and food are in the game and that you need to get control of your region so quickly or you will run out of food and gold. As you start with a large amount of gold it is easy to waste this gold as there are so many options. It is easy to suddenly be in position of having no gold and food and so not being able to do many orders or actually enjoy the game.

I found i would plan my turns in my head put them in the order system and then when i would verify the orders only to find i would not have enough resources, or had made some other mistake and so would have to keep changing my orders to make them work. For a new player constant use of the verify orders is essential and really helps. I think the order system and verify system is brilliant for new players but it does mean you need to spend a bit more time on your first sets of orders to get them right.

For new players i would recommend there to be a small list of newb friendly position's, these would be the nations that have decent economies and are strong at the start of the game. I was lucky to pick a nation which was straight forward to play for my first game, i realised by the end it has some major weaknesses end game but as new player this is not important as the games are quick and i learnt lots. Mages are extremely powerful and important but as a new player you don't really know the best use of your mages and are unlikely to know how to know how to build the economy to make use of mages. 

It would also be helpful for new players to have a basic list of essentials to get done in the first 6 turns so they don't waste their starting resources and they get early control of their region.

In  summary i think the game is very good just needs a bit more guidance for new players on what to do at the start, what may look as obvious to an experienced player is not obvious to a new player and it is easy to ruin a position in the first few turns, but if you can keep them playing they will learn the quality and depth of the game over time.
Reply

(02-12-2023, 02:55 PM)Glowamane1 Wrote: I have just finished my first game of Alamaze as the Tyrant and so thought it might be useful to add some of my experiences as a new player.

As a new player i have had a very enjoyable game, however there are some area's i believe it could be improved for a new player.

As a new player you do not know how important gold and food are in the game and that you need to get control of your region so quickly or you will run out of food and gold. As you start with a large amount of gold it is easy to waste this gold as there are so many options. It is easy to suddenly be in position of having no gold and food and so not being able to do many orders or actually enjoy the game.

I found i would plan my turns in my head put them in the order system and then when i would verify the orders only to find i would not have enough resources, or had made some other mistake and so would have to keep changing my orders to make them work. For a new player constant use of the verify orders is essential and really helps. I think the order system and verify system is brilliant for new players but it does mean you need to spend a bit more time on your first sets of orders to get them right.

For new players i would recommend there to be a small list of newb friendly position's, these would be the nations that have decent economies and are strong at the start of the game. I was lucky to pick a nation which was straight forward to play for my first game, i realised by the end it has some major weaknesses end game but as new player this is not important as the games are quick and i learnt lots. Mages are extremely powerful and important but as a new player you don't really know the best use of your mages and are unlikely to know how to know how to build the economy to make use of mages. 

It would also be helpful for new players to have a basic list of essentials to get done in the first 6 turns so they don't waste their starting resources and they get early control of their region.

In  summary i think the game is very good just needs a bit more guidance for new players on what to do at the start, what may look as obvious to an experienced player is not obvious to a new player and it is easy to ruin a position in the first few turns, but if you can keep them playing they will learn the quality and depth of the game over time.


Well, what would you recommend to be added to the How To Play section of the rulebook? On page 23, there's a Quick Start Guide to help new players understand what to do in the early going of the game. What do you recommend to what is presently in the rulebook and/or tutorial (which lasts 7 turns)?
Reply

(02-12-2023, 03:14 PM)unclemike Wrote:
(02-12-2023, 02:55 PM)Glowamane1 Wrote: I have just finished my first game of Alamaze as the Tyrant and so thought it might be useful to add some of my experiences as a new player.

As a new player i have had a very enjoyable game, however there are some area's i believe it could be improved for a new player.

As a new player you do not know how important gold and food are in the game and that you need to get control of your region so quickly or you will run out of food and gold. As you start with a large amount of gold it is easy to waste this gold as there are so many options. It is easy to suddenly be in position of having no gold and food and so not being able to do many orders or actually enjoy the game.

I found i would plan my turns in my head put them in the order system and then when i would verify the orders only to find i would not have enough resources, or had made some other mistake and so would have to keep changing my orders to make them work. For a new player constant use of the verify orders is essential and really helps. I think the order system and verify system is brilliant for new players but it does mean you need to spend a bit more time on your first sets of orders to get them right.

For new players i would recommend there to be a small list of newb friendly position's, these would be the nations that have decent economies and are strong at the start of the game. I was lucky to pick a nation which was straight forward to play for my first game, i realised by the end it has some major weaknesses end game but as new player this is not important as the games are quick and i learnt lots. Mages are extremely powerful and important but as a new player you don't really know the best use of your mages and are unlikely to know how to know how to build the economy to make use of mages. 

It would also be helpful for new players to have a basic list of essentials to get done in the first 6 turns so they don't waste their starting resources and they get early control of their region.

In  summary i think the game is very good just needs a bit more guidance for new players on what to do at the start, what may look as obvious to an experienced player is not obvious to a new player and it is easy to ruin a position in the first few turns, but if you can keep them playing they will learn the quality and depth of the game over time.


Well, what would you recommend to be added to the How To Play section of the rulebook? On page 23, there's a Quick Start Guide to help new players understand what to do in the early going of the game. What do you recommend to what is presently in the rulebook and/or tutorial (which lasts 7 turns)?

I didn't want my post to come across as critical, as a new player I had a vey enjoyable game and the order system with the verify button and rulebook is very help full for a new player.

However as there are no alliances in game, new players do not get as much advice from the experienced players like they would if they were allied. If you ask questions people are very helpful but at the start you don't even know what questions you should be asking.

The biggest help would be on what would be good kingdoms for a new player. Its great there is so much diversity but some kingdoms are much more newb friendly. 

Some more info on what  emissaries are required to take a neutral village, town and city at friendly and tolerant relations and influence 12 for a nation with no other benefits would be helpful. It advises for armies for example you need at least 2 times the attack to take a population centre, i found this very useful advice at the start.

That the towns and villages in other regions will be taken from them and to move their army from the secondary region back to their home region as the most important thing early is to take their home region. Also they should feel free to take the pop centre's from other kingdoms in their home region.

That it is good idea to to get one or two mages to level 3 early to cast hidden ore and fertile fields on the capital to boost production.

These are only my views as a new player and their is a high chance they are completely wrong  Blush
Reply

Thank you Glowamane1, that was helpful and accurate.
Reply

I'll post on my new turn results first, and then scroll back and respond to any new postings since my last visit to this thread.

So, for me, the big issue is gold, though perhaps it should be food, also, as both of those commodities continue to hover near the bottom of the proverbial barrel. Both are vital, right? Yet, my efforts last turn to increase the amount of gold that I have increased my gold dilemma only marginally, at best.

Turn #9 - Ending Amount
Food = 956
Gold = 4,012

Turn #8 - Ending Amount
Food = 1,802
Gold = 3,411


Obviously one doesn't ever want to find themself in this kind of a situation, but that's neither here nor there. Rather, if one does end up finding oneself in this kind of situation, what is the path out, and how is the time frame for accomplishing such? It is important, not for my kingdom in this particular game, but for any newcomer to Alamaze that finds them in such a dilemma. Otherwise, despair can set in, which results in a diminishment or even a loss of hope, which in turn can motivate the new player to drop out of the game. After all, if they perceive the end to be near, why waste their time to stick around for the ending?

Now, compare the gold amounts above to certain gold costs for my kingdom:

Our magical research cost is 8,000 gold per level.

Plateau levels have additional cost.
At 3rd level: +10,000 gold
At 5th level: +30,000 gold
At 7th level: +60,000 gold
To reach 5th level: 40,000 + 30,000 = 70,000 gold


So, how does one (namely, a new player in a situation similar to my own) perceive themself to be able to afford the costs associated with increasing the magic levels of their wizards? The quick math off the top of one's head swiftly perceives the numbers game to be a bridge too far. Perceptions frequently become more powerful and more persuasive than actual realities, where games are concerned. Put a veteran player who possesses substantial knowledge accrued through experience in the game over a span of time into my position, and what that veteran player will do is simply set about trying to fix the problem as best as they can. What might seem obvious to a veteran player, though, is not necessarily so obvious to a new player.

If new players drop out of the games that they are in because of the perception that they can't fix their gold or food dilemmas, even if the actual realty is that they could, if they do the right things in the right sequence, then they never reach experienced player status, and the advantages that such naturally confers. Players dropping impacts game balance considerations, right?

It appears that one player in this particular game has already dropped out or been defeated. Well, that was certainly quick, wasn't it?

The Warlock ruler has surrendered and their kingdom has been removed from

                           the conflicts within this contest: no new orders will be issued. Artifacts
                           in possession may have been relocated to an area that was previously
                           explored by our kingdom.


A glance back at Turn #0 reminds me of who is playing what kingdom in this game:

         UN    The Crown Islands(1)    The Underworld Cult of Secrets                 Zarashand

         LY    Darkover(2)             The Vile Culture of the Lycans                 shaun tolley
         IL    The Diamond Coast(3)    The Sphere of the Illusionist                  Canticar
         SA    Krynn(4)                The Theocracy of the Sacred Order of Knights   Strylian
         LI    Triumvia(5)             The Empire of the Lizard Kings                 Windstar
         FO    Zanthia(6)              The Lost Assembly of the Forgotten             GrimFinger
         DA    Nyvaria(7)              The Onyx Imperium of the Dark Elves            Harry O
         FF    The Sword Coast(8)      The Encompassing Realm of the Fairy Folk       Eregnon the Black
         GI    Pellinor(9)             The Giants Above The Trembling Ground          uncledarkseid
         WA    Zamora(10)              The Fire Realm of the Warlock                  Runigruth
         RD    Mythgar(11)             The Reign of Terror of the Red Dragons         Vball Michael
         BL    The Untamed Lands(12)   The Dark Skies of the Black Dragons            DuPont


So, it looks like player Runigruth is no longer with us. And what would go through a new player's mind, once their situation is as perilous as my own is, and there's already other players either quitting or defeated? The game says that the Warlock ruler has surrendered basically means quit, right? Is this the point where the new player gives up and the snowball rolling down hill begins to grow bigger? In other words, does the combination of a perceived hopeless gold or food situation and another player surrendering/quitting/dropping out act as an increased catalyst for the new player to abandon ship mid-game?

On Turn #8's results:
Zanthia (6)                 Minor           Suspicious      NA

On Turn #9's results:
Zanthia (6)                 Significant     Suspicious      NA


Thus, the "conquest" of a village, this turn, resulted in an increase in my kingdom's regional influence in Zanthia. Yet, my kingdom is still a lot smaller in Zanthia than it was, so I already know that it's gonna be a slow slog, rather than a fast one. With a reaction level of Suspicious, this means that my emissaries will find it more difficult to usurp pop centers in this region, in a bid to try and reverse my gold and food situations. And if my emissaries fail in their bids to usurp control of pop centers, then they can be captured or killed, right? I know that, already, because that's what happened to my Count early in the game. Plus, emissaries of The Forgotten start the game at a diplomatic disadvantage, right?

From the kingdom set-up:
Special Rules For The Lost Assembly of the Forgotten Kingdom:
Our political emissaries are at a disadvantage from the lack of engaging with others and have a -15% penalty when rebelling/usurping pop centers

And because a new player simply isn't likely to have memorized the charts (and the knowledge contained therein), the new player will likely be more apprehensive about the possibility of their emissaries failing - and thus, getting captured or killed. This, in turn, induces doubt and hesitation, further reducing a new player's inclination to stay in the game and seek to reverse their kingdom's misfortune over a longer span of time. Why not just quit and drop the game that they are in, and simply join another game? In the meantime, game balance deteriorates, because the player dropped, right? Or am I missing something here?

Overall for thus turn, Turn #9, I felt that I enjoyed some degree of success in trying to stage a comeback (I use that word loosely, here), but the numbers for gold (and now food, also) remain exceedingly troublesome. It's not about rules, and it's not about mentors. Rather, it's about perceptions!

Even though this game conveys unto me the impression that Alamaze is one of the quietest PBM type games that I've ever played, which is an issue and a problem all its own, one thing that might be helpful at "encouraging" players to communicate more, rather than less, would be to include the Ruled by info that appears on Turn #0 in each turn. Do I remember who all signed up for this game, and who is playing what, where all of the other kingdoms and players active in this game are concerned. Nope! I sure don't. New players, especially, will have a lot of other stuff on their mind, that they're grappling with and trying to remember. Trying to remember who the others players are, and what kingdoms that they are each playing, strikes me as a wholly unnecessary additional burden.

Thinking back on my Fall of Rome days, that game had a built-in messaging system. That helped facilitate player-to-player communication, I think. Hyborian war, another PBM game that I play at present, does not have a built-in messaging system. Yet, player-to-player communication in my last three Hyborian war games (HW-955 (as Shem), HW-957 (as Hyperborea), and HW-982 (as Nemedia) has been heavy. The difference is enormous. Active engagement with other players makes a very noticeable difference in how much that I attach myself to a game. In the absence of it, here in Alamaze, I have on numerous occasions over the course of this particular game to date noticed that my attention drifts. It drifts away. It doesn't stay locked in, like it does when I receive new turn results for Hyborian War. This isn't so much a game design consideration, flaw, or shortcoming as it is one of a secondary and external nature.

Yes, I could fire up the forum's built in message system, but that would miss the point that the veteran and experienced players in this particular game of Alamaze are not lighting the message system up, and utilizing that as a mechanism to build and maintain player interest, and especially with a new player. The next time that any of you in this game wonder why the Alamaze player base is as small a s it currently is, you might want to remember that. The primary mechanism for ensuring increased and continued player engagement is you! Remember, Alamaze should be more than a game. it should be an experience!

Conquering the village, this turn, was a good feeling. It was not, however, as good of a feeling as capturing the province of Northern Bossonia from the Kingdom of Vanaheim in my most recent turn of Hyborian War. A conquest is a conquest, right? Not necessarily. So, I asked myself, "Why? Why doesn't it feel the same?"

I think that it has to do with a couple of things. One, the visual depiction is different between Alamaze and Hyborian War. In Hyborian War, the blue map updates each turn, and the conquered province appears as part of your kingdom's holdings. It's a visual depiction. In Alamaze, by comparison, the conquest of a village, this turn, was more of a text depiction. And two, the level of engagement on the player level elevates what it is that I feel, where one conquest is compared to the other. In Hyborian War, you also have conquests manifest themselves via the text depiction mechanism. That animated flame flame image (battlefire.gif) denotes that a battle took place. If I had the option, I would likely turn off the images that appear in my turn results in Alamaze, not to mention that parchment style background image. To me, they just visually clutter my turn results. Also, my eyesight not being quite as good as it once was, my visual preference is for less ornamental effect and more visually crisp text. The presentation of information directly impacts how players perceive a game. I get that such visual ornamentation was probably incorporated to try and help build atmosphere of the setting, and for some, maybe it does. For me, though, they end up being more of a visual annoyance.

I've also converted some of my Alamaze turn results HTML files to PDF format. I am attaching a copy of my most recent turn results for The Forgotton in this game to this posting. As this game is more of an experiment and a learning experience, there are no "national security" considerations for me. Thus, I don't mind if my fellow players in this game see what I see. After all, I've already invited other players to come after my kingdom, previously.

For me, using the arrow keys to move from page to page is a lot faster, thereby allowing me to more swiftly access particular sub-segments of information, compared to when I just use the HTML output file. I don't know how hard or time-consuming that it would be to provide a PDF output option for turn results (in addition to, or as an alternative to, the current HTML turn results)? Just some food for thought and consideration.

Conquering a village in combat, this turn, saw one of my characters promoted, and a new character/leader joined my kingdom, in the style of Fall of Rome of old. A Centurion, huh? Am I still in ancient Rome? Titles such as Centurion and various character names undermine the fantasy feel of Alamaze. As there are different levels of characters in numeral form, I'm not sure why a Centurion level character in Alamaze for a kingdom called The Forgotten would be called a Centurion. It's a small detail, for sure, but small details have a way of adding up, and especially where feel and atmosphere are considerations.

                                     - Conclusion -


    Within a few hours, the village defenses were obliterated and an unconditional surrender
    was offered. The Forgotten banner now waves nobly in War Devil! Forgotten casualties were
    put at 19.57%. All Forgotten leaders survived the battle. Catun Heamoor once again shown
    great valor and has earned a promotion to Captain Major. In the heroic tradition of the
    Forgotten kingdom, a courageous leader has risen in this battle. He is Centurion Beadon
    Weocot. All the Forgotten wizards survived the fray. The troops are anxious for more
    victories: morale is up!


I am also attaching a small snippet of a screenshot that features some attempts by some of my kingdom's agents to gain a clearer picture of where the Lizard Queen's population centers are. The visual impact of this to the new player is disproportionately greater than the same revealed information is to one who is used to receiving it. The old Fall of Rome way of doing it was better, I think, if for no other reason than that the player then wasn't required to input four separate coordinates, in order to obtain the "big picture." I could be wrong, of course, and simply remembering things incorrectly, but in that interface, you would just click on one area, and you would automatically gain that area and all of the immediately surrounding areas, information-wise. Yes, I know and grasp and realize that this is a different interface, but from a standpoint of user-friendliness and intuitiveness, the old approach was noticeably smoother and better, and for the extra effort, my memory wants to say that the player actually ends up receiving less info for the increased effort. For technical reasons, this route may have proven to be a necessity, but that doesn't mean that it was an improvement.

Each turn results that I look at, one thing that my eyes keep coming back to is how the information is presented, visually. Different methods of visual dividers are used, to visually segment one area of the turn results from another. My eyes persuade me that there is likely room for substantial improvement in this area. This is all about presentation, and not about programming of the game's design, itself. It is, in essence, an output issue - and a visual problem that occurs after the turn is run.

And so, as my eyes run back and forth and up and down over my turn results, my mind wonders to itself whether there isn't a better way to present at least some of what all gets presented to the end viewer, the player. My eyes prefer clarity over ornaments. Collectively, it all constitutes the visual methodology (my term, it doesn't have to be yours). If you're used to it, then you may think nothing about it. I'm not used to it, however, and my eyes begrudge me continually subjecting them to it. They resist it, because what they are encountering is not conducive to what they want to see.

A variety of different things, a number of different visual mechanisms, are utilized in order to present information to the player i the form of turn results output. Lets consider some of these:

1. Animated gif - This reminds me of an earlier era of the World Wide Web. Yes, it's noticeable, and yes, it does visually stand out. That's not always a good thing, though. It can be, but it may not be. It's worth noting that most of the images that display on the turn results are not animated gif files. Replace the static images with animated images, and the problem of which I lament will immediately become obvious, to any who might have doubts. This is a relatively isolated visual problem, and it's certainly not the biggest visual problem. Animated gif files developed a bad reputation in early web design for a reason, though for visual memes, they remain quite popular, today.

2. Large Brownish Text - One of the visual divider forms is that of instances of large brownish text is used to visually divide and distinguish certain sections of the turn results from other sections. A few examples of these are where it says Universal Events Around the Realm, Political Events, Forgotten Regional Summary (for my kingdom), etc.. Is there a reason why this color was chosen instead of, say, the color black? Was it viewed to be a prettier color? Or was it an attempt to color coordinate these text portions with the parchment background? On my Hyborian war turn results, I encounter similar bold large text used to visually separate and distinction areas or sections of information from one another. Yet, as I sit and compare the two, back and forth, my eyes prefer the large, bold, black text on a white background (paper) of my Hyborian war turn results to the large, bold, brownish text on a parchment background of my Alamaze turn results. This isn't a game design issue, but an information presentation issue.

3. Different Color Text - Let's see, we have blakc text, that brownish text that I referred to above, green text, blue text. The different colors are used to make things stand out. That's why one utilizes a range of different text treatments or visual impact treatments (bold, italics, underlined, strike through, etc.). Yet, when taken as a whole, over-resort to such visual treatments can yield a rainbow effect on the eyes. At what point are there too many colors on the visual output? Why do you need the green and the blue? Is it a necessity, or is it superfluous?

4. Double Images - By this, I don't mean that the same image is used twice. Rather, I am referring to where the turn output file uses two images in conjunction with large, bold, brownish text as visual dividers. Did the large, bold, brownish text suddenly become deficient or insufficient in its primary role of visual divider? Are those images merely for ornamental effect? Are they included to promote the feel and the atmosphere of the setting? Instead of using two short images per section where these images are use, why not just use one, but make it wider/longer, and overlay the lage, bold, brownish text on top of it, for display purposes? When I browse my Hyborian War turn results, my eyes are beset and bedeviled by such a visual smorgasbord as what's going on, visually, on my Alamaze turn results. Forget how well or how poorly that a player is doing at any given moment in their games of Alamaze, and come back down to the Earth of visual basics for a moment. My gut feeling is that there are much better, and more effective, ways of incorporating visual imagery to promote the Alamaze experience and to enhance the feeling and atmosphere of the setting. On the one hand, Alamaze skimps on visual imagery. Building up and growing a visual repository of Alamaze-unique imagery has never been a driving force in either promotion of the game to a larger potential audience, or to enhancing the feel and atmosphere of the setting. The way that visual imagery is currently incorporated into the the turn results output files is not a particularly effective way of accomplishing such. There are better ways.

5. Small Images - Scattered across the turn results output files are a number of different small images. How much do they add to the visual impact of a turn, and how much do they enhance the feel and atmosphere of the setting? One thing about resort to small images is that, while they often fit better on a given page or output file, the very act of shrinking them (or of presenting them in shrunken form is that said images lose a portion of their visual impact. All else being equal, when you compare two of the exact same image, but in different sizes, the larger file will invaiably yield more visual impact on the viewer.

View this image by itself in your web browser, and then compare it to the smaller version of it that appears on your turn results:

[Image: magic2.png]

6. Single Dashed Lines - The use of single dashed lines works pretty well, in every instance that I have encountered it. Its use as presently implemented doesn't strike me as a visual problem.

7. Double Dashed Lines - With the use of double dashed lines, my eyes encounter a mixed bag. Primarily, when they are used as long dividers to visually separate and visually distincguish one Grop from another, they would likely function better in that capacity if they were bigger and bold. It wouldn't require the use of as many keystrokes to deliver the entire divider length, but the dividing lines would become much more pronounced. I think that the end visual result would be better.

8. Visual Clutter - In their current incarnation, the turn results come across to my eyes as visually cluttered. This is entirely a presentation issue, and not a game design issue. Many times, HOW you present information is as important as WHAT information that you present. Information presentation should not be the red-headed step-child to the game design child. They go hand in hand. Visually, visual presentation can be as important as game design to the end user.


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(02-12-2023, 01:53 PM)unclemike Wrote: For visitors to our site, please do not take Maximus' comments as the golden rule of playing Alamaze.

Every kingdom in Alamaze starts with an ample amount of gold to perform actions in the early part of the game. For the Forgotten kingdom, Maximus started with 100,000 gold (see the attachment) which is plenty to do all kinds of actions in the game.

For example, starting the game with 100,000 gold is ample enough to develop one or more wizards for them to magically create gold themselves. Having wizards that magically create gold helps augment the kingdom's gold production every turn.

However, the Forgotten kingdom is not a magically inclined kingdom so you won't get as much bang-for-the-buck going that route. Alamaze does have favorable kingdoms for wizard development: Sorcerer, Necromancer, Fairy Folk, etc. to name a few. If you raise your wizards for one of those kingdoms, you'll attain access to better and more powerful spells with each level compared to a military-style kingdom like the Forgotten.

When I mentioned above that if a player is "lazy" and doesn't wish to move their groups around to conquer things, that's ok, Alamaze offers kingdoms for that particular playing style as well. Try out the Underworld, which are masters of the covert using thieves and agents for various missions. Or, try out the Ancient Ones or Demon Princes kingdoms, they are more politically motivated rather than having strong militaries to conquer stuff. My point is that Alamaze offers various kingdoms to fit any type of playing style that is desired.

As for the approach of totally ignoring all attempts to learn the game (e.g., not referencing the rulebook, not pressing the Verify Orders button when filing out one's orders, etc.), well, that probably won't take you far in any game, not just Alamaze. It was mentioned in this thread or elsewhere that Chess was learned by one's sister, but I guarantee, either your sister read the rules or she learned from someone who did. That's true for any game.

Maximus, I would appreciate it if you would please refrain from saying, "Uncle Mike's way of doing things". That is not accurate and does not represent what several of us are trying to convey to you in how to learn and enjoy the game. Following instructions is important, not only to do well in any game, but also to have some sense of what is going on within the game and what to do.

So, I would appreciate if you refrained from saying "Uncle Mike's way" any further since it conveys the wrong impression and is not accurate. So far on this forum, by myself and other players, we've tried to explain the conventional way of playing Alamaze. It is not the only way, but perhaps, may be the best way of understanding and learning the game.

For visitors to our site, if a particular kingdom does not match your playing style, try another which may be more appropriate for you. As for my personal taste, I prefer the wizard kingdoms because Alamaze's magical system is what sets it apart from all other PBM games. I think only "You Rule!" came close to Alamaze's expansive magical system. That was back in the 80's/90's. Since then, we've enhanced Alamaze's magical system by a fairly large amount, with new spells and effects than the original version of the game offered decades ago.

I will try to refrain from any characterization's of "Uncle Mike's Way." Of course, I've never stated that my way (since I am still in my first multi-player game of Alamaze, what you refer to as "my way" hasnb't actually had time to develop and gell, yet) is this "golden rule of playing Alamaze." That's a fabrication on your part, though it is certainly colorful.

It is becoming increasingly clear to me why long time multiple players of the game view you to be sensitive to their comments.

As for this supposed conventional way, this conventional way of which you are a vocal advocate certainly has not succeeded in growing the Alamaze player community. In fact, as I recall from past e-mails that you sent to me, the lack of growth of the Alamaze player community was a primary lament of yours. The conventional way doesn't really strike me as being a particularly effective way of growing the community - and that is a far bigger and more important issue than what any of us, as individuals, think and perceive to be the "better" way to learn how to play the game. Your chosen approach to advocacy of this ballyhooed conventional way is one of the least persuasive attempts at advocacy that I have ever encountered over the span of my entire life. You seem resistant to the possibility that there might be different or better ways.

This conventional way could easily be described as the usual way, the same old way, or the failed way. Individual players will always come and go, no matter what. The more important issue is growth, and stale and entrenched learning curves do not have to just be swallowed hook, line, and sinker, just because you are the programmer and you're stuck in your ways.

I'm not here to argue with you, Mike. In fact, this morning, I increasingly wonder why I am here, at all, and why I even bother to look at, analyze, and provide feedback of any sort, at all.

Accordingly, I will bring my participation to an end, and leave you with your conventional way intact.
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Hi Charles - there's a lot to unpack there, but I want to speak on one of the things you mentioned and that's Military Leader titles. While I agree that not all kingdoms might use a title like 'Centurion', I would really not want to get into different kingdoms having different titles because then with my own kingdom (as well as when I was fighting others) I would have to translate in my head (and probably look up) to see what actual 'level' they were at.
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(02-13-2023, 02:17 PM)Maximus Dominus Wrote:
(02-12-2023, 01:53 PM)unclemike Wrote: For visitors to our site, please do not take Maximus' comments as the golden rule of playing Alamaze.

Every kingdom in Alamaze starts with an ample amount of gold to perform actions in the early part of the game. For the Forgotten kingdom, Maximus started with 100,000 gold (see the attachment) which is plenty to do all kinds of actions in the game.

For example, starting the game with 100,000 gold is ample enough to develop one or more wizards for them to magically create gold themselves. Having wizards that magically create gold helps augment the kingdom's gold production every turn.

However, the Forgotten kingdom is not a magically inclined kingdom so you won't get as much bang-for-the-buck going that route. Alamaze does have favorable kingdoms for wizard development: Sorcerer, Necromancer, Fairy Folk, etc. to name a few. If you raise your wizards for one of those kingdoms, you'll attain access to better and more powerful spells with each level compared to a military-style kingdom like the Forgotten.

When I mentioned above that if a player is "lazy" and doesn't wish to move their groups around to conquer things, that's ok, Alamaze offers kingdoms for that particular playing style as well. Try out the Underworld, which are masters of the covert using thieves and agents for various missions. Or, try out the Ancient Ones or Demon Princes kingdoms, they are more politically motivated rather than having strong militaries to conquer stuff. My point is that Alamaze offers various kingdoms to fit any type of playing style that is desired.

As for the approach of totally ignoring all attempts to learn the game (e.g., not referencing the rulebook, not pressing the Verify Orders button when filing out one's orders, etc.), well, that probably won't take you far in any game, not just Alamaze. It was mentioned in this thread or elsewhere that Chess was learned by one's sister, but I guarantee, either your sister read the rules or she learned from someone who did. That's true for any game.

Maximus, I would appreciate it if you would please refrain from saying, "Uncle Mike's way of doing things". That is not accurate and does not represent what several of us are trying to convey to you in how to learn and enjoy the game. Following instructions is important, not only to do well in any game, but also to have some sense of what is going on within the game and what to do.

So, I would appreciate if you refrained from saying "Uncle Mike's way" any further since it conveys the wrong impression and is not accurate. So far on this forum, by myself and other players, we've tried to explain the conventional way of playing Alamaze. It is not the only way, but perhaps, may be the best way of understanding and learning the game.

For visitors to our site, if a particular kingdom does not match your playing style, try another which may be more appropriate for you. As for my personal taste, I prefer the wizard kingdoms because Alamaze's magical system is what sets it apart from all other PBM games. I think only "You Rule!" came close to Alamaze's expansive magical system. That was back in the 80's/90's. Since then, we've enhanced Alamaze's magical system by a fairly large amount, with new spells and effects than the original version of the game offered decades ago.

I will try to refrain from any characterization's of "Uncle Mike's Way." Of course, I've never stated that my way (since I am still in my first multi-player game of Alamaze, what you refer to as "my way" hasnb't actually had time to develop and gell, yet) is this "golden rule of playing Alamaze." That's a fabrication on your part, though it is certainly colorful.

It is becoming increasingly clear to me why long time multiple players of the game view you to be sensitive to their comments.

As for this supposed conventional way, this conventional way of which you are a vocal advocate certainly has not succeeded in growing the Alamaze player community. In fact, as I recall from past e-mails that you sent to me, the lack of growth of the Alamaze player community was a primary lament of yours. The conventional way doesn't really strike me as being a particularly effective way of growing the community - and that is a far bigger and more important issue than what any of us, as individuals, think and perceive to be the "better" way to learn how to play the game. Your chosen approach to advocacy of this ballyhooed conventional way is one of the least persuasive attempts at advocacy that I have ever encountered over the span of my entire life. You seem resistant to the possibility that there might be different or better ways.

This conventional way could easily be described as the usual way, the same old way, or the failed way. Individual players will always come and go, no matter what. The more important issue is growth, and stale and entrenched learning curves do not have to just be swallowed hook, line, and sinker, just because you are the programmer and you're stuck in your ways.

I'm not here to argue with you, Mike. In fact, this morning, I increasingly wonder why I am here, at all, and why I even bother to look at, analyze, and provide feedback of any sort, at all.

Accordingly, I will bring my participation to an end, and leave you with your conventional way intact.
You seem to be confusing two different topics, how to successfully play the game of Alamaze and how to attract new players. 

Even your favored Hyborian Wars has suggested approaches for each kingdom, most of those approaches involve understanding the rules. You started out poorly in the game due to your lack of knowledge. The way to improve your available resources is to conquer additional pop centers (PCs).

Playing the Forgotten you are challenged in your use of emissaries, but it is a challenge not a defeat. You and several other new players made a good point that the success rate for emissaries is an unknown. Over the weekend I posted a tool to help clear up this blind spot, and it does take into account the challenge that the Forgotten face.

Another valid point that has been made recently is that there was no easy way for experienced players to share their "Alamaze Wisdom". I proposed a Mentors game on the forum where experienced players can play as part of a team with a new player. These games used to take place periodically in the past and they seem to have fallen out of practice.

Try using the emissary tool, its an excel spreadsheet, and if you have not already soured on the game, sign up for the mentors game. Both will improve your knowledge of the game, and hopefully improve your enjoyment.
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UN => all

Looking to buy 30k food for 15k gold
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@VBall
Maybe the most impressive feat I have seen in Alamze yet. Power 7 on T10. Geez.
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