Game 5703

[Maximus Dominus]

Just a little math off the top of my head.

If the Giants and the Red Dragons attack the Atlanteans, that's 2-to-1 odds.

If it were true that 4 kingdoms had arrayed themselves against the Giants and the Red Dragons, then that would be 4-to-2 (or 2-to-1) odds, right?

[drops mic]

[Glowamane1]

Just a little math off the top of my head.

If the Giants and the Red Dragons attack the Atlanteans, that's 2-to-1 odds.

If it were true that 4 kingdoms had arrayed themselves against the Giants and the Red Dragons, then that would be 4-to-2 (or 2-to-1) odds, right?

[drops mic]

The Atlanteans and the gnomes had already said on the forum they were allied, that is the reason i supported the red dragons as he is a new player.

Personally would have been much easier for me to attack the lizard men early as they don't have a hidden capital.

I am not complaining about being attacked, that is part of the game. Well played on organising the alliance, you have worked well together.

I am just informing the rest of the players, if they want any chance of surviving they need to ally up quick

[RELLGAR]

AT- what coordination? Have you seen a gnome? It's just us Atlantians and our demand friends attacking by our own independent plans.

We know nothing about the lizard King. Never had any contact.

[Maximus Dominus]

The Atlanteans and the gnomes had already said on the forum they were allied, that is the reason i supported the red dragons as he is a new player.

Personally would have been much easier for me to attack the lizard men early as they don't have a hidden capital.

I am not complaining about being attacked, that is part of the game. Well played on organising the alliance, you have worked well together.

I am just informing the rest of the players, if they want any chance of surviving they need to ally up quick

Except. . .you're misinforming the players, not informing them. I haven't organized a 4-player alliance in this game. That is suspicion on your part. That's you engaged in speculation - and erroneous speculation, at that. On top of that, you are artificially inflating the threat, specifically the supposed threat posed to the remaining kingdoms in the game. Said another way, you're positing the existence of a bogeyman that isn't actually real.

Do you realize how very little effort that experienced Alamaze players put into coordinating in games, especially this one? Post messages in the game thread, and very few responses get posted, by allies or enemies alike. Send messages to other players about the game, and as many times as not, you receive no response - or you get responses that are very delayed and difficult, if not impossible, to act upon.

The Atlantean has said more than one thing. Did he not say:

I could offer to mentor the Red Dragon King, since you appear to be a new heir. Even though your attacks where unprovoked, I don't hold any ill will to either of you. Good luck to you both.

[Pine Needle]

AL-Death Knights
Other than destroying all living beings, what are your thoughts on the Grand Alliance? Feel free to contact me privately, King of Death. pineneedle2020@gmail.com
AL Experimental King

[Maximus Dominus]

AL-Death Knights
Other than destroying all living beings, what are your thoughts on the Grand Alliance? Feel free to contact me privately, King of Death. pineneedle2020@gmail.com
AL Experimental King

OOC:

Grand Alliance - such an interesting term.

In Hyborian War, more times than not, the term Mega-Alliance is used (or some variant, thereof). I write a brief piece on it many years back. I've actually written more than once on the subject, but I didn't retain copies of my full array of comments on the subject. I do, however, observe game players' respective choices of words and phraseology. What is deliberately left out is often the most interesting part of the equation, when it comes to trying to figure out what is going on within a given game.

What players typically mistake are individual "agreements" that aren't actually part of any so-called "Grand Alliance." And of course, the pieces of the puzzle that aren't put on display tend to add to the cloud of confusion and distrust that typically follow terms like Mega-Alliance or Grand Alliance being bandied about.

Did the Lizards bother with conquering the Giants' capital in area WL, this turn? No, they did not. Of course, I knew this was going to be the case, before the most recent turn ran in this game. After all, the Lizard player told me. There was an e-mail waiting on me this morning to that effect.

The Alchemist and the Demon Princes have swapped maps, as have the Atlanteans and the Demon Princes. Who else is supposedly in this nom de guerre of Grand Alliance? Is it the Gnomes, the ones who don't really expend much effort in the way of communicating? Is the silence that I've experienced from the Gnomes indicative of a Grand Alliance?

What about the DeathKnights? Are they also a part of this supposed Grand Alliance? What was it that Wookie Panz told me, previously, in this game?

DK Death Knights to DE, Demon Princes
I tried to communicate with you on turn 1 that I would tax my town for you on turn four.  Now it is turn 3 and your first group is there ready to take it. 
 We seem to have a communication problem and this is a full communication game.  I also posted my email to everyone.
My gov and agent are still in the town and I can't move them through your group - you block me in.  I don't recall if I can tax and relocate them with you blocking the pop center - anyone else know?  I do know that your attack order will come first and any order I do will be wasted. 
 If you agree to hold off a turn on your attack I'll tax the town this turn, a turn earlier than I had planned. 
 If you prefer not to communicate I'll assume you are hostile.

Did I plan for the Giants and the Red Dragon to try and rape Pellinor, for them to cooperate in their attacks upon the Atlanteans? In wargames such as Alamaze, Hyborian War, and others,  kingdom-self-interest, paranoia, deliberate deceptions, playing upon ignorance, attempts at misdirection, and other such less-advertised player activities are routinely swept into a pile and given name or title, such as Mega-Alliance, Grand Alliance, or whatever the word soup of the days is.

When I left a DeathKnight town and an Alchemist village unmolested in the region of Darkover was such acts of benevolence all part of a Grand Alliance? or is there any chance that decisions rendered within a game of Alamaze have a tendency to be arrived at on a case-by-case basis?

The Giants player cries foul, in the form of his unilateral declaration of:

I have now been attacked by the lizard men, this means they are working with the demon princes, atlanteans and gnomes.

This is the same Lizard Men who did NOT take the Giants' capital, after bothering to park a military group Army Group size atop it?

What else was it that the Giants player said?

This 4 player alliance will pick all the other nations off when they have finished with me and the red dragons. Any nations that want us to fight on or want any info on them can contact us at glowamane@outlook.com
Giants

Thus, while fabricating the existence of a Grand Alliance and casting his own kingdom (the very one that initiated hostilities against the Atlanteans) in the role of victim, what is it that the Giant player then seeks to do? To drag other kingdoms into the fray that he, himself, started.

For me, as I have stated on numerous occasions, now, this game is but one of six games that I consider to be a Learning Game.

But what about all of the missing "conversations" and missives? The veil of innocence, it should be noted, is so very sheer, that it presents itself as wholly invisible to the human eye. What about all that was said,but which goes unsaid, by those who subscribe to this Grand Alliance theory?

I have sent communications to a variety of different realms, not all of which were responded to. And they were each sent for their own purposes. This Grand Daddy of a Grand Alliance, which is but a figment of overactive-but-seldom-used imaginations, suddenly gains front page news status.

Maybe I should have just taken the Free Traders up on that offer of a superior artifact. Of course, my last attempt to communicate with the Free Traders player remains unresponded to, even now. But then again, so did an attempt to communicate with the Black Dragons. And let us not even speak of any communications that transpired to or with the Dwarves and/or Druids.

There is actual reality, and then there are the fabricated or distorted alternate realities of players, much of which is frequently of the self-inflicted variety.

In life, truth is frequently stranger than fiction. Fiction and self-deception are routinely easier to deal with than actual truth, for truth tends to have many moving parts, and human beings (aka players) tend to try and boil things down to soups of simplicity.

The Giants' invasion of Pellinor, it might be worth saying, is what staved off a Free Traders-Demon Princes war. One man's curse, thus, is another man's blessing. I would have to go back and dig up past turns, but it's probably been two to three turns since I last cast a sleep spell upon any Free Traders agents that were amassing in the area of NP. And this ongoing conflagration between the Free Traders and the Black Dragons, did that not cost the Demon Princes a Level 9 agent, recently? Now, which of them should I hold responsible? Or is there any blame due, since my agent was parked in what was, at the time I dispatched him there, a Free Traders population center? But what was it that I mentioned to the Free Traders player in my last missive to him? Was he wholly unaware that I was moving characters through his realm? Come on, now. Let's all just be honest with one right. Right?

Grand Alliance, indeed! Do any of you really think that Hell has such a short memory? Granted, I'm considerably older than I used to be, but come on, now.

The DeathKnights' initial suspicions about the Demon Princes, what did the actual truth turn out to be? Could there be any truth to the fact that unintended lack of communication hints at possible Demon Princes hostility towards the Death Knights?

And when the Druid player is off in his human dimension getting lost in playing another game, what should the Demon Princes make of that? To his good credit, the Druid finally responded, but by then, my interest in wasting sleep spells on unsuspecting Dwarves had waned, had it not? Nothing personal, of course. For me, it's just a Learning Game, and I have been experimenting with all sorts of different things. Why else do you think I wonder to myself, at times, where there's really any point, at all, in bothering with posting in the forum here, or in trying to communicate directly with other players?

Grand Alliance, indeed!

And will cold-blooded reptilians extending mercy unto the Giants and their capital, should that now be taken to mean that yet another Grand Alliance has now arisen within Alamaze? Or should I just taken the Lizards' player's words at face value, in that e-mail that he sent to me, this morning?

Hold on, though, what else has been said and done and planned and schemed and concocted and hinted at, so far this game?

DK - FT   Mr. Trader I tried to communicate with you on turn 1 as well and you have not replied.  Are you going to tax your town for me next turn?  As you may recall I gave you the option of a sea village in Crown for one in Triumvia.  I await your reply.
DK- BL    Hey there handsome black dragon.  I'll vacate my village this turn.  No doubt you know where it is but if not I can tell you?

Are the DeathKnights in cahoots with both the Free Traders and the Black Dragons? How does one properly read the tea leaves of what players say and do in a game of Alamaze? Should we all just assume that the DeathKnights were engaged in acts of timid supplication? Is this an unholy trinity, I wonder? Or is it just Dan doing what Dan frequently does in different games of Alamaze? Have not the vaunted veterans of Alamaze routinely played the fiddle of "my region," and carry out non-hostile "sapping" of population centers? Or is it irrefutable "evidence" of Grand Alliances forming?

And what about things that the Atlantean player has, himself, posted publicly for one and all to read at their leisure and convenience?

AT- GI and RD do you think you both can take me out? I don't think so, you will need to get one more to succeed. 
DE thank you for the alliance.  They both have army groups 8n Pellinor.  The Giants would be the easier of the 2 to take pc's politically.  .

Did Rellgar know ahead of time that the Demon Princes player was scheming to declare the Atlanteans an ally in this particular epoch of Alamaze? Or did Maximus Dominus have a card up his sleeve to which the Atlanteans were not privy? Is it within the realm of possibility that the Demon Princes declared the Atlanteans an ally, not because of Giant antics in Pelinor, but because of a chance utterance by the Atlantean player of certain words involving, of all things, a mere village called Cornucopia, and of Atlantean spine on verbal display against the Free Traders? Please, tell us all, again, about this so-called Grand Alliance.

And turning our attention (and our focus) back upon the esteemed Atlantean player, once more:

AT- GI and RD, if either of you would like to make peace or surrender,  let me know now and I'll do my best to stop my allies from taking your home regions.

And was taking the Giants' home region the grand objective in this over-imagined Grand Alliance? Indeed, did the Atlanteans ever possess the means and the ability to determine what his allies (I use that term loosely, here) would do, even on his own behalf? What if there was no great conspiracy for the Demon princes to wrest control of Mythgar from the Giants? What if the initial plan, a plan that was formed later in response to the unfolding of the Giants-Atlanteans War, was actually directed at rebelling Giant population centers, rather that usurping them? The town of Falcon Roost in area SM, why was it rebelled to neutral status, instead of being usurped outright?

Those of you who have already convinced yourselves that a Grand Alliance involving the Demon Princes has taken root in this game, please do answer such questions.

Players have a tendency to pursue the self-interests of their respective kingdoms. They also tend to allow their fears and their suspicions and their imaginations to run rampant at mere possibilities - which, curiously enough, are not actually the same thing as truth, more times than not.

Me? I'm playing a game known as irony. To me, it is ironic that the Giants and the Red Dragon, the two foremost military powers in all of Alamaze launch a war against the Atlanteans, only to then watch the powerful Giants have to then resort to public whimpering. What was it that the Giants' player said, again?

I have now been attacked by the lizard men, this means they are working with the demon princes, atlanteans and gnomes.

This 4 player alliance will pick all the other nations off when they have finished with me and the red dragons. Any nations that want us to fight on or want any info on them can contact us at glowamane@outlook.com
Giants

His unilateral declaration of what the Lizards "attacking" him (even though the lizards left his capital intact, when all was said and done) would "mean" is interesting, if you're one who, like me, enjoys observing the things that human beings say, especially when playing wargames.

What is it that the Giants player was trying to do here? He willingly chose to engage in an act of demonization and fearmongering. Now, whether he achieved competence when trying to do so, well that's another matter altogether. And this is the same prescient Giants player who allowed the Demon Princes kingdom, a kingdom won by a player who is playing a Learning Game, to swoop in and take away a large chunk of his homeland in Mythgar, right out from under his nose? No chance that he simply miscalculated, and failed to take into account what it would mean for him when the Demon Princes declared the Atlanteans an ally? has the Giants' position int his epoch become so precarious, that he must now resort to deliberate misleading of all other kingdoms in the game that are not presently party to a conflict that the Giants' player, himself, started?

But then again, what do I know? Somewhere in all of these words that I typed, just now, the smell of irony wafts over them.

Grand Alliance or irony? You decide.

[Maximus Dominus]

Oh, and one other thing.

At any time, have the Giants gotten off their slothful asses and attempted to make a deal with the Devil?

Have they lifted so much as a single finger, to try and negotiate directly with the Demon Princes for their kingdom's survival and prosperity?

No, they have not. Is that no longer a thing? Is there really a need to try and "demonize" Demon Princes? Does no one else see the plain irony in that?

Just a clumsy Grand Alliance gambit, eh? Persuade the world that a greater evil than the evils that the Giants commit and visit upon others is now amongst us, eh?

What a clever fellow this Giants player do be! Know that Hell stands. . .wait for it. . . impressed.

[RELLGAR]

AT-ALL, the FT have attacked us and taken Cornucopia several turns ago and is an enemy.
The RD is recruiting and building up. To late for you to make peace, good luck!

[Maximus Dominus]

OOC:

Turn #14
Immortal              The Lizard Men kingdom has sent a raven familiar to one of our population
                           centers (Area XK).


Turn #15
Immortal              The Lizard Men kingdom has sent a raven familiar to one of our population
                            centers (Area XK).

Special Rules For The Empire of the Lizard Kings Kingdom:

• Our ruler starts the game as being Immortal.
  

An Immortal knows who sent a raven, agent recon, or scry (artifact or falconry) to
a kingdom-controlled pop center.


I thought that I had read something a while back about I (the Demon Princes) would know, if some other kingdom scried us, but I had failed in my recent attempts to track that tidbit of info back down. Now, Turn #15 and the Grand Alliance myth have collectively managed to yield the confirmation of what I thought that I had previously read.

This supposed Grand Alliance that was conjured out of thin air, recently, were the Lizards who were supposed to form the fourth leg of this Grand Alliance table the very same Lizards who were using a raven to spy the Demon Princes new capital in area XK, a minor city previously controlled by the Giants in the region of Mythgar two turns in a row? I don't care about ravens, per se, as even general curiosity will lead players to try and "see" what's going on in various different area of the map. I, myself, learned of a buildup of Free Trader agents (which I expressed a concern about to the Free Traders in my last communication to that realm's player). It's what led me to cast sleep spells upon Free Trader agents, previously, after all.

It's good to know that I wasn't going crazy, thinking that maybe I had imagined that my kingdom would learn about attempts by other kingdoms to scry my population centers. That, to me, is progress. That, to me, is learning.

The loss of roleplaying in a wargame like Alamaze is always a loss, just looking at the game, generally, as a player. I had initially pondered, once my Demon Princes entered Mythgar, that I might tempt the Lizard Kingdom, by handing over the minor city, there, just as a check and balance against the Giants. The Lizards player, as it turned out, was too busy smoking fancy cigars, to focus upon his roleplaying as a Lizard with a lisp (lots of ssss's in his several communications to me).

Lizards, if anything, should be cold-blooded, though. And maybe this particular Lizard player will yet turn out to be just, exactly that. My thought was that if the Lizards obtain the minor city in question, that there was a chance that Giant control of the region of Mythgar would be shattered, forever. I Boom Tubed my way into Arkham, and after inflicting some assorted losses upon the Giants, I could just as easily Boom Tube my way back out, again. The survival of my Atlantean ally did not have to equate to the utter destruction of the Giants.

I figured that a Lizard outpost in Mythgar might be sufficient to goad the Giants player, just serve as a thorn in the eye, so to speak. Yet, I ended up with control (temporary, I'm sure) of Mythgar. It's kind of odd and strange how things actually turn out in games like this, huh?

Of course, why I even bother to post any of this is beyond me. The Alamaze player community as a whole doesn't really seem to value communication of length, though there may be some few exceptions to that general rule of thumb. I think that I'll just take another nap.


ZZZ...zzz...ZZZ...zzz...

[Pine Needle]

Pine Needle Wrote:
AL-Death Knights
Other than destroying all living beings, what are your thoughts on the Grand Alliance? Feel free to contact me privately, King of Death. pineneedle2020@gmail.com
AL Experimental King

OOC:

Grand Alliance - such an interesting term.

...

AL- Four Demons of the Apocolypse-

Forgiveness I beg, sirs, I asked the DeathKnights about the Grand Alliance, not the Demon Princes. I appreciate your thoughts, though.

AL Brevity is the soul of Chemistry