Brigade comparisons

[Brekk]

I believe most of these changes are good and well considered; good job!

A few items to consider:

Fairy Folk seem they should have a higher Storm value, mostly due to the fact that they can fly over walls and avoid traditional defenses. Air Elementals fall into this as well.

I don't agree that Gelatinous Cube should have such a high Charge value, as I don't see them charging. Yes, you might run into them, which could be bad...

I am surprised you went with a high charge for Ghouls. My first thought was poor ranged and charge, but excellent melee and very high defense. My thinking is the Ghouls are slow but hard to kill and you don't want to get within bite range.

Is it "ok" for the Free Traders to have an absent Storm value - would this cause any issues? Would a group of only Free Trader troops just not be able to attack a pop center?

One of the things we decided regarding charge was whether some creatures have a natural resistance to charge or could cause damage to others during a charge phase. The Gelatinous Cube falls into this category.

[Olorin]

Lizard Men:
Scaly big guys with claws. Throw javelins and close types. Stronger than human, use atlatl [spear or arrow throwers] for long range as string does poorly in wet. Which are surprisingly effective in practiced hands.

Posted, Actual --- Proposed
LR:Below Average, Below average --- Good
SR:Above Average, Average --- Very Good
CH:Above Average, Above Average --- Average
M1:Above Average, Good --- Above Average
M2:Above Average, Average --- Average
CO:Above Average, Average --- Average
DE:Average, Average --- Average
ST:Above Average, Average --- Average

---

Lycans:
It is not that I object to a brigade being better than others, just that it is not known to the players. So we did very little here.

Posted, Actual --- Proposed
LR:Very Poor, Poor --- Below Average
SR:Average, Average --- Average
CH:Excellent, Excellent --- Excellent
M1:Good, Renowned --- Excellent
M2:Good, Excellent --- Excellent
CO:Good, Excellent --- Excellent
DE:Above Average, Good --- Above Average
ST:Good, Excellent --- Excellent

---

Mammoths [5]:
Another favorite Companion. Another understated strength. And a better defense rating! There are few brigades who do not get raised by adding these, and only 2 Kingdom brigades.

Our thoughts: Howdahs do not make a steady platform for LR, so we switched with SR where it made sense. Elephants historically do not fight better than cavalry, but their CH is frightful. DE was brought more in line with the Posted.

Posted, Actual --- Proposed
LR:Good, Good --- Average
SR:Above Average, Average --- Good
CH:Excellent, Excellent --- Excellent
M1:Good, Excellent --- Average
M2:Above Average, Average --- Average
CO:Good, Very Good --- Average
DE:Excellent, Superior --- Excellent
ST:Good, Excellent --- Excellent

---

Manticores [5]:
The pow-5 Monster Summon. This is another one where some of the ratings were changed from the Elves. These can fly and are supposed to fling spikes off its tail at opponents. So we moved the higher rating to SR, and left the high CH. Not much stamina, though.

Posted, Actual --- Proposed
LR:Awesome, Awesome --- Average
SR:Very good, Renowned --- Excellent
CH:Above Average, Awesome --- Excellent
M1:Above Average, Excellent --- Below Average
M2:Above Average, Good --- Poor
CO:Above Average, Good --- Average
DE:Above Average, Good --- Good
ST:Above Average, Above Average --- Average

[Olorin]

Minotaurs [5]:
The other pow-5 summons. These two should be about the same level of ability. The minotaurs should fight better, I would think. The Posted ratings agree with that anyway.

Our thoughts: This should be a hand-to-hand fighter, by the legends for it. Charge should be good [literally bull-headed].

Posted, Actual --- Proposed
LR:Below Average, Below Average --- Absent
SR:Below Average, Poor --- Poor
CH:Very Good, Very Good --- Excellent
M1:Above Average, Very Good --- Very Good
M2:Above Average, Good --- Excellent
CO:Above Average, Good --- Excellent
DE:Good, Good --- Above Average
ST:Above Average, Above Average --- Average

---

Mephits [10}:
Essentially lesser types of elementals, a very mixed bag. By Posted ratings, about the same as Goblins.

Our Thoughts: If these are lesser elementals, they should share some of the characteristics of the four types. As the unique Companion of the Elementalist it needed a little more ability. So it became a mix of those, greatly increasing its ratings. So there is a mix of each of the four elementals, without the specials, but they fly. Now we need to see how they do in the game.

Posted, Actual --- Proposed
LR:Good, Good --- Below Average
SR:Above Average, Average --- Below Average
CH:Very Poor, Very Poor --- Above Average
M1:Average, Poor --- Good
M2:Below Average, Poor --- Good
CO:Below Average, Very Poor --- Above Average
DE:Below Average, Poor --- Very Good
ST:Below Average, Poor --- Excellent

---

Mummies [5]:
A pow-8 Summons. The highest evil summoned monster. One of the top four summoned. It should be powerful, right? Why would you waste a pow-8 wizard order on it otherwise.

Our thoughts: Which mummy movie did you see where the mummy fills its foes with arrows? Or throw things at them? Yeah, me neither. So no LR or SR. How close would you be willing to fight someone who causes your arm to rot off? Mummies may not charge fast but most things got no intention of being in their way. And they are tireless and hard to hurt.

Posted, Actual --- Proposed
LR:Good, Excellent --- Absent
SR:Average, Poor --- Absent
CH:Very Good, Very Good --- Superior
M1:Above Average, Very Good --- Superior
M2:Above Average, Good --- Renowned
CO:Above Average, Very Good --- Excellent
DE:Excellent, Renowned --- Superior
ST:Above Average, Above Average --- Average

[Olorin]

Mythians:
One of the Recruitables. Did not really get into this with the Knights earlier, but we are working on making each of the various type of Recruits its own specialization of sorts. Mythians are the archers of the group for us. In the Actual ratings they were better SR than Wood or Dark Elves, so it seemed appropriate.

Posted, Actual --- Proposed
LR:Good, Good --- Good
SR:Very good, Excellent --- Superior
CH:Average, Average --- Below Average
M1:Average, Below Average --- Below Average
M2:Average, Below Average --- Below Average
CO:Above Average, Average --- Below Average
DE:Good, Average --- Average
ST:Above Average, Average --- Average

---

Necromancer:
If these were supposed to be the dead middle of the road troops, it failed badly. We did not do much here. Moved the Average rating up to the beginning of the combat is about it.

Posted, Actual --- Proposed
LR:Average, Below Average --- Average
SR:Average, Below Average --- Below Average
CH:Average, Average --- Below Average
M1:Average, Poor --- Below Average
M2:Average, Poor --- Poor
CO:Average, Poor --- Poor
DE:Average, Below Average --- Below Average
ST:Average, Below Average --- Poor

---

Northmen:
Another Recruit. This one gives advantages in winter, otherwise kind of a standard troop. Was Posted as an above average brigade, but , well... So after everything got worked out they ended up pretty average.

Posted, Actual --- Proposed
LR:Average, Below Average --- Average
SR:Average, Below Average --- Below Average
CH:Above Average, Above Average --- Average
M1:Above Average, Good --- Average
M2:Above Average, Average --- Average
CO:Above Average, Average --- Average
DE:Above Average, Average --- Average
ST:Above Average, Average --- Average

[Mauler]

Next up, Amazons.  Sorry about the delay on this.  RL issues keep claiming time.

As per the rules, Actual, Proposed
LR:Good, Good, Excellent
SR:Good, Above Average, Very Good
CH:Very Good, Very Good, Very Good
M1:Above Average, Good, Average
M2:Above average, Average, Average
CO:Above Average, Good, Average
DE:Average, Average, Below Average
ST:Above Average, Average, Average

---

BTW, I am not faulting anybody.  Our thought was that at one point the ratings were accurate, but with adding all the new brigades the ratings slowly slipped.  Then got worse with each new change.  So now we are fixing them all and adjusting to where we thought each type should look strong relative to the others.  Which is why Brekk is asking for feedback.  Are we close to what you would expect?  Should we shift some rating a bit?

I am just trying to let you guys see what we saw when we worked on these.

---

Ancient Ones:
Posted, Actual, Proposed
LR: Good, Good, Excellent
SR: Above Average, Average, Excellent
CH: Above Average, Average, Below Average
M1: Above Average. Good, Average
M2: Above Average, Average, Average
CO: Above Average, Average, Average
DE: Above Average, Average, Average
ST: Average, Average, Below Average

---

You can certainly argue us into changing a rating for good or bad.  But you have to give us a reason!  Why are Ancient Ones better or worse at Charging than we gave them?

---

Apes (10).
First Companion Brigade. As an example of what we were thinking.  Apes can throw stuff.  Where were they going to get long range from?  So no.  Throwing rocks is not very great either.  They have some small shock value.  Not a lot of armor either, though they move fast. The number in parentheses is the number raised.

Posted, Actual, Proposed
LR: Very Poor, Poor, Absent
SR: Below Average, Poor, Poor
CH: Above Average, Above Average, Average
M1: Above Average, Good, Above Average
M2: Above Average, Good, Average
CO: Above Average, Average, Average
DE: Average, Average, Below Average
ST: Average, Average, Average

---

Atlanteans:
Posted, Actual, Proposed
LR: Very Good, Very Good, Excellent
SR: Above Average, Average, Very Good
CH: Average, Below Average, Average
M1: Above Average, Good, Average
M2: Above Average, Average, Average
CO: Above Average, Average, Average
DE: Above Average, Average, Average
ST: Average, Average, Below Average

It might just be me, but the Ancient Ones, were previously presented like they were Numernoreans. Elite armies with smaller numbers. Contrasted by the plentiful but poorly organized Demon Prince levies. Obviously, do what works. Thematically, I always liked the contrast.

[Olorin]

---

Ancient Ones:
Posted, Actual, Proposed
LR: Good, Good, Excellent
SR: Above Average, Average, Excellent
CH: Above Average, Average, Below Average
M1: Above Average. Good, Average
M2: Above Average, Average, Average
CO: Above Average, Average, Average
DE: Above Average, Average, Average
ST: Average, Average, Below Average

---

It might just be me, but the Ancient Ones, were previously presented like they were Numernoreans. Elite armies with smaller numbers. Contrasted by the plentiful but poorly organized Demon Prince levies. Obviously, do what works. Thematically, I always liked the contrast.

Was not aware of that. We will have to take that into account and see what changes we can make. The contrast sounds reasonable, though, as I kind of like it too.

[Brekk]

---

Ancient Ones:
Posted, Actual, Proposed
LR: Good, Good, Excellent
SR: Above Average, Average, Excellent
CH: Above Average, Average, Below Average
M1: Above Average. Good, Average
M2: Above Average, Average, Average
CO: Above Average, Average, Average
DE: Above Average, Average, Average
ST: Average, Average, Below Average

---

It might just be me, but the Ancient Ones, were previously presented like they were Numernoreans. Elite armies with smaller numbers. Contrasted by the plentiful but poorly organized Demon Prince levies. Obviously, do what works. Thematically, I always liked the contrast.

Was not aware of that.  We will have to take that into account and see what changes we can make.  The contrast sounds reasonable, though, as I kind of like it too.

Ageed lets make that chnage Olorin, didnt even know about the contrast

[Olorin]

Nomads:
This is indeed one that we changed. We based them more on the Mongols, or the Huns, from the steppes. Their descendants, the Cossaks, demonstrated tricks with horses and bows that the Apaches and other plains tribes could not begin to match. Not a lot of armor, though. And towns were taken by swooping in before the gates were closed or sieging until the defenders quit.

Posted, Actual --- Proposed
LR: Good, Good --- Renowned
SR: Good, Above Average --- Superior
CH:Good , Good --- Excellent
M1: Average, Below Average --- Average
M2: Average, Below Average --- Average
CO: Above Average, Average --- Above Average
DE: Average, Below Average --- Below Average
ST:Average, Below Average --- Poor

---

Nyvarians
We decided that we needed a sapper type specialist troop. These are it. Best ST for the Recruited troops. Not really interested in fighting anything but PCs.

Posted, Actual --- Proposed
LR: Average, Below Average --- Average
SR: Average, Below Average --- Below Average
CH:Good, Good --- Average
M1: Average, Below Average --- Below Average
M2: Average, Below Average --- Below Average
CO: Above Average, Average --- Below Average
DE: Above Average, Average --- Average
ST:Average, Average --- Excellent

---

Ogres [5]
This one annoys me. Not sure how we did it. We thought we gave them enough, but it looks like I need to move some from LR to either CH or M1.

Posted, Actual --- Proposed
LR:Below Average, Below Average --- Average
SR:Average, Below Average --- Below Average
CH:Above Average, Average --- Below average
M1:Good, Excellent --- Average
M2:Good, Superior --- Excellent
CO:Above Average, Above Average --- Good
DE:Above Average, Above Average --- Average
ST:Above Average, Good --- Good

---

Orcs [15]
I think mea culpa on this one and Ogres. Orcs are supposed to be just a bit better than the average human. Disliking ranged and favoring closing for a kill. So the SR and the CH need an exchange, and I have to look at the ST.

Posted, Actual --- Proposed
LR:Average, Below Average --- Average
SR:Above Average, Average --- Good
CH:Average, Average --- Below average
M1:Above Average, Average --- Average
M2:Above Average, Good --- Average
CO:Above Average, Average --- Average
DE:Average, Below Average --- Below Average
ST:Average, Below Average --- Poor

---

Owlbears [10]
The pow-3 Monster Summon. Owlbears are another that is not known for any kind of ranged attack. They are supposed to have a scary charge and melee ability. So there we are.

Posted, Actual --- Proposed
LR:Awesome, Awesome --- Absent
SR:Very Good, Excellent --- Absent
CH: Above Average, Average --- Excellent
M1:Above Average, Average --- Above Average
M2:Above Average, Average --- Good
CO:Above Average, Good --- Good
DE:Above Average, Below Average --- Below Average
ST:Above Average, Above Average --- Average

---

Pit Fiend [2]
You guys were wondering why these seemed to get an upgrade. It is because the posted ratings were completely false. Not one of the Actual ratings were below Superior. In 3 ratings they were at the top of the heap. There was no way they could be considered the middle of the pack they were officially rated at.

Our Thoughts: Another with no LR demonstrated. SR would be throwing things. It is in the charge and fighting that these excell. No longer the very best, but still top notch. They are a pow-6 Summons, so they should fight well, just not better than a pow-9.

Posted, Actual --- Proposed
LR:Above Average, Renowned --- Absent
SR:Good, Superior --- Below Average
CH:Excellent, Superior --- Renowned
M1:Average, Ultimate --- Excellent
M2:Above Average, Ultimate --- Excellent
CO:Above Average, Ultimate --- Excellent
DE:Good, Renowned --- Renowned
ST:Good, Ultimate --- Awesome

[Olorin]

Phoenix [1]:
AS Posted, this is a fine addition to the Dragons. In Actuality the only reason most players get these is the Special ability. Right now it barely averages over Average. Very Strong they are not.

Our thoughts: Nobody uses them for fighting prowess. The have no LR. SR is the fire it flips off its wings, probably pretty effective. Past that, the defense it was supposed to have would be nice.

Posted, Actual --- Proposed
LR:Good, Average --- Absent
SR:Above Average, Average --- Good
CH:Excellent, Above Average --- Average
M1:Good, Below Average --- Average
M2:Above Average, Below Average --- Average
CO:Good, Below Average --- Average
DE:Excellent, Good --- Excellent
ST:Good, Above Average --- Average

---

Pirates:
These should be good with Ranged, just from practice firing at other ships. Sea-legs messes up running. Fight like most humans, probably lacking in stamina. Not a lot of armor [drowning would be a worry]. And not a lot of practice attacking towns.

Posted, Actual --- Proposed
LR:Good, Good --- Excellent
SR:Above Average, Average --- Very Good
CH:Below Average, Below Average --- Poor
M1:Average, Below Average --- Average
M2:Average, Below Average --- Average
CO:Average, Poor --- Below Average
DE:Average, Below Average --- Below Average
ST:Average, Below Average --- Poor

---

Phantasmal Force/ Phantoms [5]:
These are temporary forces, probably made to look like the general force it was conjured into. As such they are likely to generate a completely average fighting force. The ability to look like they are sending massive volleys of ranged attack is probably countered by the fading of the spell at LR.

Posted, Actual --- Proposed
LR:Below Average, Below Average --- Average
SR:Average, Average --- Good
CH:Average, Average --- Average
M1:Average, Below Average --- Average
M2:Average, Below Average --- Average
CO:Average, Below Average --- Average
DE:Average, Average --- Average
ST:Above Average, Average --- Average

[Ruingurth]

Hi all,

When changing the strength of a brigade (either up or down) perhaps the resource consumption and/or the recruiting costs should be adjusted as well.

R