Casual Player Insights

[Lord Moontree.]

Let me start by saying I absolutely LOVE Alamaze. I first started playing it back in the 90's, then again around 10 years ago, and most recently I've played 4-5 games. Many of the changes over the years are quite simply amazing and increase the game's enjoyment so much.

For what it's worth, I thought I'd offer my insights. Mind you I recognize many of you know the game WAY better than I do, and I consider myself a casual player. For me, the overall feel is just a little off. The game feels kind of like a race and if you get invaded early (or heaven forbid invaded by 2+ realms simultaneously in an anonymous game which has happened to me twice recently), that "race" suddenly feels like it's lost and your position is not recoverable.

What appeals to me about the game is the build-up. You feel like you are shaping your kingdom's destiny by exploring, cementing your hold over your region, building neat buildings and fortifications, etc. But in my opinion, many of the game mechanics enable all your hard work to be undone in the bat of an eye. What I've seen is if someone gets the jump on you (sending in 8+ diplomats along with 2-3 armies), you might be able to fend them off (unless the aforementioned 2nd wave comes from 2nd opponent), but even if you do you are just playing out the rest of the game trying to recover and maybe place in the top 5 or so.

It got me to thinking. What if the game was "slowed" down a bit. What I mean by that is mechanisms introduced to make it harder for your realm to just get blown up in 2-3 turns. For example, what if movement was 15 (vs. 20) thus slowing down enemy armies a tad. What if taking control of your PCs typically need two enemy diplomats, one to Stir Unrest and one to Usurp, even if your opponent is Friendly in the region. And what if there were a Surrender/Truce mechanism whereby you can declare you've lost to an opponent's invasion, they keep whatever they currently have, but you are shielded from further aggression for a few turns costing you a hit in Influence.

I think by having some of these changes made, at least from my casual perspective, it would capture more of that magic of maintaining your realm. I think it also adds a bit of realism.

Anyway, please don't take this post the wrong way. I do really love this game. I also recognize that many really enjoy the game exactly how it is currently and it would be impossible to make a game that everyone loved equally. But just in case others sort of felt the same way, I figured I would offer up my thoughts.

[Tacticus]

I also played Alamaze in 90s and here since last year. Great game, community and moderator!
Slowing the pace makes more addictive and keeping players in a game longer more fun.
Though it's not just army movements. Hence there are spells and artifacts which armies can jump anywhere or long distance in one turn.
On the other hand; wizards, politics, agents are also raised fast. Once a military kingdom took all my pop centers expect the city and capital, in one turn with invisible diplomats.
Overall it is like build up around until turns 15/20, and then face the uncertainty.

[Clueless]

The problem is that food and gold production are too high. Decrease production and you'll slow down the game, while also making it more challenging for everyone. As now, a kingdom can have everything that they want: higher wizards, a ton of troops, free emissary/agent/priestess actions, etc. It's too easy to attract newer people, but at the sacrifice of overpowering the players.

Wasn't there a forum post by one of the programmers mentioning a new variant of an austerity-driven version of the game, decreasing production and making troops/wizards/orders more expensive? Including encounters to make artifacts more rare and precious? Because that would certainly slow things down making everyone a lot more careful in their plans of what to develop in their kingdom (compared to now which is that you can have everything).

[davekuyk]

The problem is that food and gold production are too high. Decrease production and you'll slow down the game, while also making it more challenging for everyone. As now, a kingdom can have everything that they want: higher wizards, a ton of troops, free emissary/agent/priestess actions, etc. It's too easy to attract newer people, but at the sacrifice of overpowering the players.

Wasn't there a forum post by one of the programmers mentioning a new variant of an austerity-driven version of the game, decreasing production and making troops/wizards/orders more expensive? Including encounters to make artifacts more rare and precious? Because that would certainly slow things down making everyone a lot more careful in their plans of what to develop in their kingdom (compared to now which is that you can have everything).

IMHO, the issue is not that food and gold production are too high. PCs produce about as much as they always have; if anything, kingdoms are slower in the early game now than they were in the past due to hidden cities, restrictions on divinations, and reduced emissary range (all good changes btw). 

The real issue (again, IMHO) is the zero cost of a single order: 480 Raise Influence.

Due to this single change, it is the optimal strategy, regardless of kingdom (AN aside), to raise influence via a standing order as early as turn 1, allowing most kingdoms to hit the influence max of 20 on turn 7 or 8. Hitting the order max early allows kingdoms more options, which in turn leads to more early production, which then fuels the supercharged kingdoms we see now. Another side effect is that every kingdom is a political powerhouse, as they spend most of the game near the influence max. Once upon a time, a kingdom might be able to mount a political attack with multiple princes OR an attack with multiple groups, now that "or" is an "and" for everyone.

The order bottleneck is a central design of the game. Limiting the number of actions a player can take forces tradeoffs and creativity. Kingdoms reach the order limit early with few tradeoffs, where before players would have to sacrifice something to afford the raise influence order each and every turn. Allowing kingdoms 22-23 orders as soon as turn 7, 8, or 9, we see a cascading effect on future turns as kingdoms have more production, more intel, and more options.

Is this all a problem? I'm not sure. The game is different, certainly. It is still enjoyable.

Perhaps another problem, related somewhat, is that wizards scale in three dimensions: cost, power, and level. Maybe that is too much. Take a WA wizard vs a non-wizard kingdom. The WA wizard is 1) cheaper to raise, 2) has better spells, and 3) has a higher assured max. 

A thought experiment, what if all wizards cost 10,000 gold to raise, but some kingdoms scaled better on the other dimensions - better spells and higher max? How would that change the game?

[Lord Moontree.]

Great conversation, thanks all! I think those are all valid points (lowering gold/food, lowering # orders, etc.).

I also still like the idea of having a "Surrender" option where when you are getting smashed, you can cut your losses. This idea came to me from a board game that I love called Europa Universalis - The Price of Power. In this board game, if an opponent is beating the snot out of you, you can basically surrender so that that opponent cannot continue to steamroll you.

I think a similar mechanic could be introduced that, in my opinion, would really help players in certain situations. It should come at a cost, of course. As I see it, the game effect could be something like your realm is immune to all diplomatic offensive actions (320/330), military actions (110/111/150/160/170/180/190), and covert actions actions (pretty much all but perhaps limited to 940/945/955) for 5 turns. However, after declaring a surrender, your Influence takes a hit (-3?) and you also cannot perform any of the above actions. What this would do is stop the bleeding and give you time to get back on your feet - perhaps leveling up some wizards and agents, building an army, moving emissaries into place, etc.

I think this Surrender order should be high number (in the 900's), so that your opponent can complete whatever action they were about to do (e.g. attack that PC, etc.).

I think such a Surrender rule could really help when you are betting bullied by a more powerful realm, or especially when you find yourself being attacked by 2 or more players.

What do you all think about such a mechanism?