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**Lord Thanatos** · 05-21-2014, 08:59 PM

So 6 kingdom brigades of TRolls (4200 total) are marching across the PLAINS. The TR small army has NO LEADERS and NO WIZARDS as it wanders aimlessly in search of a forest...

From the sky 9 kingdom brigades of Red Dragons and 5 brigades of Wyverns, led by 3 Warlords and a P3 wizard and having High Morale and Exceptional Leaders, execute a Determined Attack upon the poor, leaderless TRolls.

THE RD P3 CASTS CHAOS SUCCESSFULLY (travelling within an army group worth 116,000+ points) .....

So what should be the proper result?

Prior to the changes made to the Chaos spell the world would be free of TR vermin!!!

The result after changes to the Chaos spell? Now . . . wait for it . . . 2,000 TRolls die and the group continues on its merry way as a Division!

This is as lopsided a battle as ever occurs AND the Chaos spell SHOULD prevent retreat - but DOES NOT anymore.

I don't care if Chaos is made into a 9th level spell so it is practically impossible to ever cast. That would be preferable to making it worthless!

Sure, let's talk about how the new math works.... Let's talk about keeping new players in the game longer.... Let's talk about simple sour grapes.... Let's talk about reducing the attacking group strength such that small enough amounts of damage are done so the TRolls won't run away until it is too late for them....

My position is... if the spell doesn't make them "UNABLE to effectively withdraw at their defined retreat level" when there are NO LEADERS present then simply remove the spell from the game!!!

Chaos spell text:
THE WIZARD CASTS A SPELL WHICH CREATES DISTRACTING, HYPNOTIC PATTERNS, ILLUSIONS AND CONFUSING SOUNDS WHICH CAUSE ENEMY TROOPS TO IGNORE MANY COMMANDS OF THEIR LEADERS. THE EFFECT IS THAT THE ENEMY WILL BE UNABLE TO EFFECTIVELY WITHDRAW AT THEIR DEFINED RETREAT LEVEL. IF THE OPPOSING GROUP CONTAINS A WARLORD, THIS SPELL WILL BE INEFFECTIVE. IF THE OPPOSING GROUP CONTAINS A MARSHAL, THE SPELL'S EFFECT WILL BE REDUCED.

So, fellow gamers, what SHOULD be the proper result?

**kevindusi** · (This post was last modified: 05-21-2014, 09:16 PM by kevindusi.)

Based on the known issues thread, this does not seem to work as 'newly' advertised:
Chaos sets retreat threshold to 80% (rather than current 99.999%) for groups without Marshal/Warlord
examples:
Group A chooses a tactical selection that would set its retreat threshold at 40% losses in the combat.
The opposing group B has a wizard that casts Chaos against and attacks Group A.
If Group A has a Warlord, the Chaos spell is ineffective.
If Group A has a Marshal (but not a Warlord), their retreat threshold is increased to 70%.
If Group A does not have a Marshal or higher, their retreat threshold is increased to 80%.

In other words, the retreat threshold would be 80%, and there should be 1.2 brigades of TR left at the time that the retreat was triggered. If it is still a division, then I don't believe we're getting correct results based on the changes reflected in the known issues thread.

Now, that's a different question than what the 'proper result' should be. I personally am in favor of more decisive encounters, which would mean a more powerful chaos spell (even if at a higher level) and invisibility that actually rendered you, well, invisible. In this situation, I would expect that TR group to either be wiped out, or virtually wiped out.

Also, I would like to congratulate you on your use of multiple font colors.

**Brogan** · 05-21-2014, 11:38 PM

I don't think the combat losses/attrition works either. The last few fights I have had left my forces with no losses at all. It looks like if you are going to lose less than 50 percent of a brigade then the attrition is rounded down to zero. I have actually had a group at 97% attack a village and end up after the fight at 100%.
My option on the chaos spell is that I like that it was make into a higher level spell, but I think the coding went too far with the retreat losses. I got to scratch my head at your fight, by all means that Troll group should be long gone.

05-22-2014, 01:28 AM

Umm, message to support@alamaze.co with game/turn/kingdom info to help me get to the problem please...even if it's a problem that helps your kingdom.

**Jumpingfist** · (This post was last modified: 05-22-2014, 01:58 AM by Jumpingfist.)

I know this battle. You may have inflicted so much damage in the archery phase I was already retreating. I thought I remember reading somewhere magic comes between archery and cav phase? I know Choas still works I just used it this turn in another game and the group with a general was completely wiped out.

Seems none complain that they have all become trolls removing all attrition and the end of each battle.

**Lord Diamond** · 05-22-2014, 02:12 AM

(05-21-2014, 11:38 PM)Brogan Wrote: I don't think the combat losses/attrition works either. The last few fights I have had left my forces with no losses at all. It looks like if you are going to lose less than 50 percent of a brigade then the attrition is rounded down to zero. I have actually had a group at 97% attack a village and end up after the fight at 100%.
My option on the chaos spell is that I like that it was make into a higher level spell, but I think the coding went too far with the retreat losses. I got to scratch my head at your fight, by all means that Troll group should be long gone.

I thought the same thing but realized that I had lost a brigade.

05-22-2014, 02:32 AM

Update in the known issues thread

**Lord Thanatos** · 05-22-2014, 02:47 AM

(05-22-2014, 01:57 AM)Jumpingfist Wrote: I know this battle. You may have inflicted so much damage in the archery phase I was already retreating. I thought I remember reading somewhere magic comes between archery and cav phase? I know Choas still works I just used it this turn in another game and the group with a general was completely wiped out.

Seems none complain that they have all become trolls removing all attrition and the end of each battle.

My guess is those TRolls were trying to run away long before the archery phase! Smile

You couldn't find a single TR to pin captain bars on? Must have spent some time around invisible GN wizards? Smile

Chaos still works you say? Then I have no complaints. The only reason I raised those RD wizards to P3 (instead of funding GN wizard research) was to catch you with Chaos (repeatedly!)

Substantial in Torvale, including the city in exchange for peace must seem like a pretty good deal now, I bet? [I am very much enjoying the Master & Apprentice format - for the record.] I hope you are still having a good time?

**Kellenved** · 05-22-2014, 04:15 AM

I'm not a RD expert, but I thought they got chaos at level 4 (previously level 3)?

**Jumpingfist** · 05-22-2014, 04:50 AM

Substantial in Torvale, including the city in exchange for peace must seem like a pretty good deal now, I bet? [I am very much enjoying the Master & Apprentice format - for the record.] I hope you are still having a good time?

Sounds ok when written that way but not in context of the game. Still a terrible unbalanced deal that I would reject again. My mistake was after reading in the forums Of your exploits and seeing you fight the EL single handedly as the WA in game 124 I figured hey I am in for a good honorable fight me and my master vs LT and apprentice. I have come to learn that previous fight was the exception and not the norm. Also as I recall I was willing to concede the advantage to you guys but you still refused. One needs to look at what happens should talks fail. Looks like the 4 of you that decided best to fight this 4 on 2 battle are doing just great well on your way to victory. I am guessing now I will get some kind of turn rerun only to find out now I do not capture and kill the ranger king, prince, envoy and agent this turn. Would be nothing new with me and support.