Dropping viable positions - Why?

[Hawk_]

When Phil and I would discuss all things Alamaze, he would tell me, "Rick, you have to understand, people play for different reasons. You may want the game played a certain way, like Elves not working with Dark Elves, or players not issuing ten #600 orders in a turn, but you have to let them play the way they want and for their own reasons."

I didn't want players (the Reznick's, in games 1-10 come to mind) submitting a sheet of almost all #600 orders because I didn't think they were getting their money's worth or learning the game. Natural enemies meanwhile became pretty much accepted and understood.

Some of our players here play for one reason: to win. Many players don't give a damn about winning. Some never will and they know that and they don't care and they may have played for 20 years. I think that is as high praise as the game could get.

Early drops are a problem for unbalancing the game, especially if only one neighbor is aware of the drop. Most competitors (I know, I know - many of you don't believe in competitors) don't do anything about it. We invented, as far as I know, the standby positions, and announcing drops to the other players when it becomes official.

But drops after about turn 10 I think are ok if the player is getting a beat-down. That's not an early drop, and if its not fun for him or her, I'd rather they get in a new game, take their hard-earned lessons to the next contest and have fun with a fresh start. "Playing", by definition, is not a duty, its a recreation.

As I think I posted elsewhere, its not common that a kingdom in a good position is dropped after T6. Its uncommon and usually due to hurt feelings - within the game diplomacy or on the forum, or other-life issues rearing its ugly head.

We do recognize the diehards with our Peer Commendations for The Iron Willed. And the most important to me is The Chancellors - those that teach the game. And of course everyone loves the added in-game flavor from those who become Infamous. That's why the peer commendations are presently Page 1 of Valhalla. Its independent from winning games, but we still of course honor our Champions and those who have placed well.

I think The Usurper has said it well, and Drogo and others, that nurturing new players is everyone's responsibility in order to retain the players that we are able to attract in the first place. Experienced players should resist the urge to attack them from the get-go. Even if they don't respond to early diplomacy - they tend to be shy.

That's enough from me on that. I will post a new Sign Up thread for a Primeval for players who have been in no more than 3 games, except the central position will be the Warlock, and that will be a mentor position that is allied with all four other kingdoms, and can only win if the game goes to T24. Should be an interesting dynamic. The setup will be free for that player and not count against his service level, but you must write me at support as to why you want it - its not first come, first served.

That's a cool new format.

[Lord Diamond]

That is a cool new format.

I do have a very difficult time believing that there are players who know they will never win a game and are okay with that. I have never knowingly met anyone like that. They may not plan on winning particular games, like my artifact hunting Sorcerer game, but I hope they start off most games at least thinking "this could be the one!"

[Kellenved]

Primeval IS the perfect format for new players to learn the game at a relatively relaxed pace. Errors--typo or otherwise--which could be devastating in a regular game have much less impact and there's more freedom to experiment with just what kind of style suits the individual player.

[Drogo]

Wouldn't it also be fair to let all players know when a kingdom has dropped from the game? I am not sure if this is done but this would mitigate some of the advantage the neighbor kingdoms might have in learning of the drop before others know that kingdom is gone from the game. No?

[Lord Diamond]

Wouldn't it also be fair to let all players know when a kingdom has dropped from the game? I am not sure if this is done but this would mitigate some of the advantage the neighbor kingdoms might have in learning of the drop before others know that kingdom is gone from the game. No?

It is reported on the turn sheet, but the player needs to officially drop to make the report. If they just stop sending orders (rude) they will have effectively dropped a couple turns before it is made public. Some players will benefit during that lag either because they catch on or simply because they don't encounter resistance.

[Drogo]

Ok, I was in a Primeval game where one kingdom disappeared pretty early on and I never got a notification so I was asking.

[Jumpingfist]

That was different Drogo because he was replaced by standby the next turn.

[Drogo]

The GN was replaced but the BL quit and I didn't see any notification.

[Ry Vor]

It's a problem even in a 15 player game if a player drops say before T6.

In a Primeval game, I felt it would be worse to announce the drop early. this is something of a conundrum. We want to use Primeval for new players, but new players are the only ones who drop, and announcing 1/5th of the map is open is an issue.

[Jumpingfist]

The GN was replaced but the BL quit and I didn't see any notification.

Yeah that's true. Main reason I declared the win because really only you were in learning mode and had already told me you are good to go.

In our other game on T4 only one kingdom has a region and it is not me. So everyone I am sure is taking there lumps learning. Perfect because that is what it is there for. Just wish they were not so quite