Valhalla updates

[Jumpingfist]

When can we expect Valhalla to be getting regular updates again?  Is the new game engine compatible with Lord Frost and LDs spread sheets?

[Ry Vor]

I' sorry to say Mike was intending to have to work some on that this weekend.  I really don't think the team (Mike and Cipher) get enough credit.  Inactive kingdoms are eliminated in java which doesn't fit with how Frost Lord has constructed the Valhalla automated update.  This is just another thing that most players don't have to think about but each of these seems to push us back a week from what we want to develop.  That's no hit to Frost Lord who has done amazing stuff with no compensation as well.  Its just an example of tons of stuff that happen behind the scenes that players aren't aware of. 

[Frost Lord]

Nothing has changed in the Valhalla database since it launched in August 2014. The new platform is not yet compatible with it. Uncle Mike will let us know when (and if) the new platform can produce the proper output for Valhalla.

There are currently 4 games pending.

[Jumpingfist]

Another question(s). if someone is eliminated do they loose all points gathered in the game? I can maybe understand giving someone who quits no points, but if your eliminated you still did earn those point every 6 turns. if your name is removed are your points gone as well? Also what about the guy the quits because his kingdom is effectively dead. I think there is no shame in this especially after the first 10 or 20 turns, you gave it your all but the fight is lost. This person i think should still get the points they earned as well.

[Lord Diamond]

Another question(s).  if someone is eliminated do they loose all points gathered in the game?   I can maybe understand giving someone who quits no points, but if your eliminated you still did earn those point every 6 turns.  if your name is removed are your points gone as well?  Also what about the guy the quits because his kingdom is effectively dead.  I think there is no shame in this especially after the first 10 or 20 turns, you gave it your all but the fight is lost.  This person i think should still get the points they earned as well.

You have touched on another core concept that Frost Lord and I are arguing for. We want all fifteen personas to get credit, titles, status points, etc.. UncleMike believes that you shouldn't get credit if you don't finish the game although Rick disagrees. UncleMike also believes that anonymous game players should remain anonymous forever so as to not soil their reputations should they play poorly. We disagree with this as well, although we are okay with players choosing different personas when they start the game. The downside would be that any achievements they achieved would be spread amongst personas.

[Lord Thanatos]

Another question(s).  if someone is eliminated do they loose all points gathered in the game?   I can maybe understand giving someone who quits no points, but if your eliminated you still did earn those point every 6 turns.  if your name is removed are your points gone as well?  Also what about the guy the quits because his kingdom is effectively dead.  I think there is no shame in this especially after the first 10 or 20 turns, you gave it your all but the fight is lost.  This person i think should still get the points they earned as well.

You have touched on another core concept that Frost Lord and I are arguing for. We want all fifteen personas to get credit, titles, status points, etc.. UncleMike believes that you shouldn't get credit if you don't finish the game although Rick disagrees. UncleMike also believes that anonymous game players should remain anonymous forever so as to not soil their reputations should they play poorly. We disagree with this as well, although we are okay with players choosing different personas when they start the game. The downside would be that any achievements they achieved would be spread amongst personas.

I nearly quit every game I was in at the beginning of this month (April, 2015) because I have been on the "ignored" side of the discussion on almost every change in the last year.  Take Valhalla away (or force me to dilute my status points across multiple personas) and I promise you I am done.  I don't play anonymous games because I fear for my reputation; I play these games because I don't like gangbangs.

Being eliminated is pure bullshit too!  As a First Imperator, if I am ever eliminated (would have to be a 3 v 1 or more situation) it is probably permanent.

Being the old dog that I am, I can tolerate being kicked quite a bit because I can still recall the days when I was appreciated.  Eventually, though, . . .  who knows?

[Frost Lord]

Another question(s).  if someone is eliminated do they loose all points gathered in the game?   I can maybe understand giving someone who quits no points, but if your eliminated you still did earn those point every 6 turns.  if your name is removed are your points gone as well?  Also what about the guy the quits because his kingdom is effectively dead.  I think there is no shame in this especially after the first 10 or 20 turns, you gave it your all but the fight is lost.  This person i think should still get the points they earned as well.

You have touched on another core concept that Frost Lord and I are arguing for. We want all fifteen personas to get credit, titles, status points, etc.. UncleMike believes that you shouldn't get credit if you don't finish the game although Rick disagrees. UncleMike also believes that anonymous game players should remain anonymous forever so as to not soil their reputations should they play poorly. We disagree with this as well, although we are okay with players choosing different personas when they start the game. The downside would be that any achievements they achieved would be spread amongst personas.

I nearly quit every game I was in at the beginning of this month (April, 2015) because I have been on the "ignored" side of the discussion on almost every change in the last year.  Take Valhalla away (or force me to dilute my status points across multiple personas) and I promise you I am done.  I don't play anonymous games because I fear for my reputation; I play these games because I don't like gangbangs.

Being eliminated is pure bullshit too!  As a First Imperator, if I am ever eliminated (would have to be a 3 v 1 or more situation) it is probably permanent.

Being the old dog that I am, I can tolerate being kicked quite a bit because I can still recall the days when I was appreciated.  Eventually, though, . . .  who knows?

I agree with LT on the reason for playing ANON.  I am terrible at coordinating and I do not have to in those games.

On hindsight, we really should not have called them "Anonymous" Games.  We should have called them "We are not sharing the player's names at the start of this game because we do not want players to communicate via email until the game is over" Game.  That way, when new players came along, they would not be confused about what we meant by "Anonymous".

[Ry Vor]

I want to clarify this a bit.  Mike doesn't insist on anything.  Mike isn't trying to determine how Alamaze decisions are made.  The situation with Valhalla is the process Frost Lord and Lord Diamond developed requires 15 kingdoms (as I understand it), even if some are initially inactive, like in Primeval, or drop, as in Full Steel.  Mike was not aware of the Valhalla aspect of game ending conditions as he made moves that I think are good, such as eliminating inactive kingdoms so they are not just stupid targets for pilfering, raising leaders, kidnapping emissaries, stealing artifacts, don't contribute status points for enemy/ally declarations, etc.  The impact on the Valhalla updates was not expected.

Mike is very fast, and doesn't complain.  So when he says its a major thing to change the code to accommodate what the Valhalla update expects, it is likely a major thing.  He can provide the status points at game end for dropped or inactive positions with not that much trouble, but to provide all the detail that is captured in Valhalla as in Clipper, how many high priestesses, how many agents, prisoners, warlords, etc, is not in the game plan. 

I'm hoping there can be some compromise so that, yes, a dropped position gets status points, but not all that detail.  I want Mike developing Alamaze as we seem to finally be closing in on turning focus to The Choosing.   I'm hoping that kind of situation can be worked out in the Valhalla routine - you get status points if dropped or knocked out, but you don't get historical records on your various accomplishments unless you complete the game.

[unclemike]

Ok, my name came up too often on this thread 

Let me clarify what's going on. The new software is generating active player's statistics with the expected Valhalla results as normally but the program is only doing so for players that last until the end of the game. Since the report is missing dropped or eliminated kingdoms, I was going to work on that part of the code this week since I didn't have time to do so before.

However, there are other legitimate issues with Valhalla that need to be resolved as well. One in particular, is the requirement of having 15 kingdoms being listed in the report for every game. The previous procedure was distinguishing the type of game by the number of inactive positions that were around (e.g., if only 5 out of 15 kingdoms were active, it must be a primeval game).

However, this isn't going to work for us in the future with the myriad of different game variants moving forward. For example, game 300 had 17 kingdoms and could have easily accommodated the full 23 kingdoms that were available. I wouldn't mind seeing 30+ kingdoms in a particular game (bigger map) where every player in the Alamaze community played in the same game!! That would be pretty cool don't you think?

For the past couple of weeks or so we discussed the matter and came up with a new data field for the Valhalla report so Frost Lord's process can properly identify the type of game rather than requiring something like 15 kingdoms every time which isn't going to work for us. So there are additional delays in getting Valhalla done since we're also making some necessary improvements to the process compared to how things were done previously.

Hope that clarifies the situation a little. Work is being done and we hope that Valhalla will become available to everyone sometime this week if possible.

Oh, and btw, please don't make any more personal attacks against me on the forum. Just on this thread alone, some of the implied text above was a bit harsh and I am getting tired of it...

[Lord Diamond]

Oh, and btw, please don't make any more personal attacks against me on the forum. Just on this thread alone, some of the implied text above was a bit harsh and I am getting tired of it...

UM, if you interpreted anything I typed as a personal attack, I apologize. That was not my intention at all. I believe that I correctly pointed out philosophical disagreements regarding the future of Valhalla.

The issue is not that there must be fifteen kingdoms. That is merely a technical issue that can be addressed. The more critical points are:

1. Recording statistics for all players in a particular game regardless if they finished the game or not.

2. Reporting the game personas of all players in an anonymous game.

To me, the entire discussion boils down to those two points.