#300 - Experimental

[Acererak]

Had a couple of interesting things happen for me. Recovered an artifact but found that the gold that came with it was ridiculously low at 2,000, also seems to be an error in how many troops are reported dying. Lost all my leaders too. Here's the report:


RECONNAISANCE OF UNUSUAL SIGHTING IN AREA WV BY A PATROL OF THE 2ND NOMAD:
KHOJAH DECIDED TO STAY BEHIND IN CAMP AND WILL NOT BE A FACTOR IN ASSISTING THE PATROL. A
PATROL CONSISTING OF CAPTAIN I MOUSER, CAPTAIN LINZIANA AND A DOZEN HAND-PICKED TROOPS
RODE AHEAD TO INVESTIGATE THE SIGHTING. IT HAD BEEN DECIDED THAT THERE WOULD BE NO PLAN TO
RETREAT. THE PATROL WAS WILLING TO TAKE GREAT RISKS TO UNCOVER WHAT MIGHT BE SECRETED
AHEAD. WITHOUT A WIZARD PRESENT, THE FORCE WAS AT A DISADVANTAGE. IN THE FAR DISTANCE IS
SEEN AN ANCIENT TEMPLE, APPARENTLY DESERTED AND CRUMBLING. AS IT IS APPROACHED,
INDECIPHERABLE RUNES FROM AN ANCIENT TONGUE ARE SEEN BY IT'S ENTRANCE THAT LED TO A BROAD
FLIGHT OF WORN STEPS LEADING DOWN TO DARKNESS. DESCENDING, THE GROUP IS MET WITH A HOWL OF
CHILLING COLD WIND. PASSING THROUGH THE DAMP AND IRREGULAR CHAMBERS, IT'S DIFFICULT TO
KEEP TORCHES LIGHTED AS THE HOWLING WINDS SWIRL WILDLY. A LURID DARK IMAGE FORMS
INSTANTANEOUSLY IN FRONT OF THEM, REARING UP TO A HEIGHT OF 10' AND ASSAULTS THE GROUP. IN
THE FIRST MOMENTS OF BATTLE 5 SOLDIERS DIED AT THE HAND OF THIS EVIL OPPONENT. NOW THE
PATROL'S LEADERS FOUGHT WITH THEIR FULL ABILITIES. THE CONFLICT WAS FURIOUS. THE SHADOW
DEMON CLEARLY PROVED AN EXCEPTIONALLY DEADLY ADVERSARY. THE BATTLE RAGED ON, FURIOUSLY
CONTESTED FOR WHAT SEEMED LIKE HOURS. NOMAD LEADER CAPTAIN I MOUSER WAS SLAIN IN BATTLE.
NOMAD LEADER CAPTAIN LINZIANA WAS SLAIN IN BATTLE. A NEW LEADER, CAPTAIN BARNONE HAS
EMERGED AS A COURAGEOUS LEADER OF MUCH PROMISE. THE BATTLE RAGED ON, FURIOUSLY CONTESTED
FOR WHAT SEEMED LIKE HOURS. THE NEXT FEW MINUTES SAW 4 SOLDIERS LOSE THEIR LIVES, BUT THE
ENEMY HAD BEEN WEAKENED. THE NEXT FEW MINUTES SAW 6 WARRIORS PERISH. HOPE RAN HIGH,
THOUGH, AS THE FOE WAS WEAKENED. FINALLY, THE SHADOW DEMON WAS DEFEATED. UPON COMPLETION
OF THE BATTLE, THE PATROL SEARCHED AND FOUND AN EXQUISITE SUIT OF ARMOR. THE ARMOR OF ANON
IS AN ANCIENT SUIT OF ARMOR THAT WILL PROTECT THE GROUP'S HIGHEST RANKING UNPROTECTED
LEADER FROM THE DANGERS OF NORMAL BATTLE. AFTER RESTING FROM THE EXHAUSTING BATTLE, THE
PATROL NOTICED A BRIGHT OBJECT HIDDEN WHERE THE SHADOW DEMON APPEARED, IT IS A LARGE PEARL
WORTH 2,000 GOLD.


Also, the 1st Giant impaled himself on my walls (I removed the location of my capital from the report). 1st Giant must have rolled pretty bad and my extra defense must have been at the highest possible level. Too bad Beatific, you got greedy. Interesting that UM has all phases being reported on in the battle reports for pop centers.

ASSAULT BY THE 1ST GIANT FULL DIVISION ON THE NOMAD TOWN OF ANDORRA, LOCATED IN AREA OF
SOUTHERN SANDS: IN THE FIRST HOUR OF MORNING GENERAL VERGARA COMMANDED HIS 1ST GIANT FULL
DIVISION TO ADVANCE UPON THE TOWN. INCREASING THE DEFENSES WERE LEGIONS OF THE NOMAD ROYAL
GUARD! IT BECAME APPARENT TO THE ASSAULTING UNITS THAT THE TOWN OF ANDORRA'S DEFENSES
WOULD BE BOLSTERED BY NOT ONLY THE THESE TROOPS' ADDITIONAL COMBAT EXPERIENCE, BUT ALSO BY
THEIR SUPERIOR TACTICAL AND STRATEGIC PLANNING CAPABILITIES USED TO DEFEND THEIR CAPITAL.
AS THE MOST IMPORTANT GROUP OF THEIR PEOPLE THE FIGHTERS ARE VISIBLY BOLSTERED BY THE
PRESENCE OF THE FIRST GIANT'S BANNER! AS THE ATTACKERS ADVANCED THROUGH THE PLAINS THE
FIRST MISSILES SANG OUT. THE GIANT SKILLED ARCHERS INFLICTED LITTLE OR NO DAMAGE TO THEIR
OPPONENTS LINES. THE WALL DEFENDERS SKILLED ARCHERS INFLICTED LITTLE OR NO DAMAGE TO THEIR
OPPONENTS LINES. THE GIANT WIZARD ANTONIUS DISMOUNTED PAST THE DEFENSIVE MISSLERS ON THE
BATTLEFIELD. THE GIANT POWER-1 WIZARD ANTONIUS MUTTERED A FEW WORDS IN A FOREIGN TONGUE
WIHCH CAUSED HIS IMAGE TO DISAPPEAR FROM THE BATTLEFIELD! THE GIANT EMPHATIC MAGES DEALT
OUT LITTLE OR NO DAMAGE TO THE WALL DEFENDERS. BOLTING AHEAD TO MEET THE CAVALRY OF THEIR
FOES WERE THE GIANT FORCE AND THE WALL DEFENDERS CAVALRY. THE GIANT CAVALRY DEALT OUT
LITTLE OR NO DAMAGE TO THE WALL DEFENDERS LINES. AS THE WALL DEFENDERS CAVALRY IMPOSED
LITTLE OR NO DAMAGE TO THE GIANT RANKS. STALWART INFANTRY NOW CHARGED AHEAD. GIANT FORCES
INFLICTED AVERAGE DAMAGE WHILE WALL DEFENDERS TROOPS DEALT DEVASTATING DAMAGE. GIANT
CASUALTIES HAD NOW EXCEEDED ACCEPTABLE LEVELS IN THE JUDGEMENT OF GENERAL VERGARA SO HE
ORDERED THE RETREAT BE SOUNDED. THE GIANT LEADERS DID A REMARKABLE JOB IN EXITING THE
FIELD WITH MINIMAL ADDITIONAL CASUALTIES. THE DEFENDERS WERE ABLE TO REPEL THE GIANT
ATTACK IN ANDORRA! GIANT CASULTIES WERE PUT AT 8,264 TROOPS. ALL GIANT LEADERS SURVIVED
THE BATTLE. LOSSES SUFFERED IN THE EFFORT AND DEPRESSION OF DEFEAT HAVE GREATLY REDUCED
THE GIANT'S MORALE.

[kevindusi]

When I got my Shield of Hector, I found 7,000 gold. Booya.

[Beatific]

Had a couple of interesting things happen for me. Recovered an artifact but found that the gold that came with it was ridiculously low at 2,000, also seems to be an error in how many troops are reported dying. Lost all my leaders too. Here's the report:


RECONNAISANCE OF UNUSUAL SIGHTING IN AREA WV BY A PATROL OF THE 2ND NOMAD:
KHOJAH DECIDED TO STAY BEHIND IN CAMP AND WILL NOT BE A FACTOR IN ASSISTING THE PATROL. A
PATROL CONSISTING OF CAPTAIN I MOUSER, CAPTAIN LINZIANA AND A DOZEN HAND-PICKED TROOPS
RODE AHEAD TO INVESTIGATE THE SIGHTING. IT HAD BEEN DECIDED THAT THERE WOULD BE NO PLAN TO
RETREAT. THE PATROL WAS WILLING TO TAKE GREAT RISKS TO UNCOVER WHAT MIGHT BE SECRETED
AHEAD. WITHOUT A WIZARD PRESENT, THE FORCE WAS AT A DISADVANTAGE. IN THE FAR DISTANCE IS
SEEN AN ANCIENT TEMPLE, APPARENTLY DESERTED AND CRUMBLING. AS IT IS APPROACHED,
INDECIPHERABLE RUNES FROM AN ANCIENT TONGUE ARE SEEN BY IT'S ENTRANCE THAT LED TO A BROAD
FLIGHT OF WORN STEPS LEADING DOWN TO DARKNESS. DESCENDING, THE GROUP IS MET WITH A HOWL OF
CHILLING COLD WIND. PASSING THROUGH THE DAMP AND IRREGULAR CHAMBERS, IT'S DIFFICULT TO
KEEP TORCHES LIGHTED AS THE HOWLING WINDS SWIRL WILDLY. A LURID DARK IMAGE FORMS
INSTANTANEOUSLY IN FRONT OF THEM, REARING UP TO A HEIGHT OF 10' AND ASSAULTS THE GROUP. IN
THE FIRST MOMENTS OF BATTLE 5 SOLDIERS DIED AT THE HAND OF THIS EVIL OPPONENT. NOW THE
PATROL'S LEADERS FOUGHT WITH THEIR FULL ABILITIES. THE CONFLICT WAS FURIOUS. THE SHADOW
DEMON CLEARLY PROVED AN EXCEPTIONALLY DEADLY ADVERSARY. THE BATTLE RAGED ON, FURIOUSLY
CONTESTED FOR WHAT SEEMED LIKE HOURS. NOMAD LEADER CAPTAIN I MOUSER WAS SLAIN IN BATTLE.
NOMAD LEADER CAPTAIN LINZIANA WAS SLAIN IN BATTLE. A NEW LEADER, CAPTAIN BARNONE HAS
EMERGED AS A COURAGEOUS LEADER OF MUCH PROMISE. THE BATTLE RAGED ON, FURIOUSLY CONTESTED
FOR WHAT SEEMED LIKE HOURS. THE NEXT FEW MINUTES SAW 4 SOLDIERS LOSE THEIR LIVES, BUT THE
ENEMY HAD BEEN WEAKENED. THE NEXT FEW MINUTES SAW 6 WARRIORS PERISH. HOPE RAN HIGH,
THOUGH, AS THE FOE WAS WEAKENED. FINALLY, THE SHADOW DEMON WAS DEFEATED. UPON COMPLETION
OF THE BATTLE, THE PATROL SEARCHED AND FOUND AN EXQUISITE SUIT OF ARMOR. THE ARMOR OF ANON
IS AN ANCIENT SUIT OF ARMOR THAT WILL PROTECT THE GROUP'S HIGHEST RANKING UNPROTECTED
LEADER FROM THE DANGERS OF NORMAL BATTLE. AFTER RESTING FROM THE EXHAUSTING BATTLE, THE
PATROL NOTICED A BRIGHT OBJECT HIDDEN WHERE THE SHADOW DEMON APPEARED, IT IS A LARGE PEARL
WORTH 2,000 GOLD.


Also, the 1st Giant impaled himself on my walls (I removed the location of my capital from the report). 1st Giant must have rolled pretty bad and my extra defense must have been at the highest possible level. Too bad Beatific, you got greedy. Interesting that UM has all phases being reported on in the battle reports for pop centers.

ASSAULT BY THE 1ST GIANT FULL DIVISION ON THE NOMAD TOWN OF ANDORRA, LOCATED IN AREA OF
SOUTHERN SANDS: IN THE FIRST HOUR OF MORNING GENERAL VERGARA COMMANDED HIS 1ST GIANT FULL
DIVISION TO ADVANCE UPON THE TOWN. INCREASING THE DEFENSES WERE LEGIONS OF THE NOMAD ROYAL
GUARD! IT BECAME APPARENT TO THE ASSAULTING UNITS THAT THE TOWN OF ANDORRA'S DEFENSES
WOULD BE BOLSTERED BY NOT ONLY THE THESE TROOPS' ADDITIONAL COMBAT EXPERIENCE, BUT ALSO BY
THEIR SUPERIOR TACTICAL AND STRATEGIC PLANNING CAPABILITIES USED TO DEFEND THEIR CAPITAL.
AS THE MOST IMPORTANT GROUP OF THEIR PEOPLE THE FIGHTERS ARE VISIBLY BOLSTERED BY THE
PRESENCE OF THE FIRST GIANT'S BANNER! AS THE ATTACKERS ADVANCED THROUGH THE PLAINS THE
FIRST MISSILES SANG OUT. THE GIANT SKILLED ARCHERS INFLICTED LITTLE OR NO DAMAGE TO THEIR
OPPONENTS LINES. THE WALL DEFENDERS SKILLED ARCHERS INFLICTED LITTLE OR NO DAMAGE TO THEIR
OPPONENTS LINES. THE GIANT WIZARD ANTONIUS DISMOUNTED PAST THE DEFENSIVE MISSLERS ON THE
BATTLEFIELD. THE GIANT POWER-1 WIZARD ANTONIUS MUTTERED A FEW WORDS IN A FOREIGN TONGUE
WIHCH CAUSED HIS IMAGE TO DISAPPEAR FROM THE BATTLEFIELD! THE GIANT EMPHATIC MAGES DEALT
OUT LITTLE OR NO DAMAGE TO THE WALL DEFENDERS. BOLTING AHEAD TO MEET THE CAVALRY OF THEIR
FOES WERE THE GIANT FORCE AND THE WALL DEFENDERS CAVALRY. THE GIANT CAVALRY DEALT OUT
LITTLE OR NO DAMAGE TO THE WALL DEFENDERS LINES. AS THE WALL DEFENDERS CAVALRY IMPOSED
LITTLE OR NO DAMAGE TO THE GIANT RANKS. STALWART INFANTRY NOW CHARGED AHEAD. GIANT FORCES
INFLICTED AVERAGE DAMAGE WHILE WALL DEFENDERS TROOPS DEALT DEVASTATING DAMAGE. GIANT
CASUALTIES HAD NOW EXCEEDED ACCEPTABLE LEVELS IN THE JUDGEMENT OF GENERAL VERGARA SO HE
ORDERED THE RETREAT BE SOUNDED. THE GIANT LEADERS DID A REMARKABLE JOB IN EXITING THE
FIELD WITH MINIMAL ADDITIONAL CASUALTIES. THE DEFENDERS WERE ABLE TO REPEL THE GIANT
ATTACK IN ANDORRA! GIANT CASULTIES WERE PUT AT 8,264 TROOPS. ALL GIANT LEADERS SURVIVED
THE BATTLE. LOSSES SUFFERED IN THE EFFORT AND DEPRESSION OF DEFEAT HAVE GREATLY REDUCED
THE GIANT'S MORALE.

Well, I don't know about being greedy in wanting to take a capital at a near 2:1 advantage. All I can say is those Nomad women are a lot tougher than they look.....and uglier. Oh well, I didn't want them anyway. They were probably sour.......

[Beatific]

A lot of Ogre momma's are not going to be very happy with the giant king. Fortunately, giant momma's are happy that the giant king disappointed the ogre momma's. I am curious about how much wag there is in battle results. I would have expected a 1.8 to 1 ratio to succeed with a Giant army (usually a 1.5 to 1 is sufficient if you are willing to tolerate the sort of losses experienced here). Of course, there is the 25% capital defense consideration, but I assume that is all factored in the defense strength and was considered by myself in any case before the attack. Have any of the battle algorithms been adjusted yet? Or is a rare but possible outcome based on the rolls (as Ace hinted at). Obviously lots to learn yet. Thanks for the lesson in Nomad diplomacy Ace! I am actually enjoying our to and fro here. To me the outcome is much less important than the lessons (which you are supplying in abundance). And, of course, getting familiar with the new controls. Great work so far Uncle Mike!

[Jumpingfist]

Well I am surprised I took the region kind of wish I didn't. Basically assures me there are no cities to be found. Spend a lot of extra orders fighting with the boards in this region. I am sure the DW is having a hard time getting control maybe because 4 of his PCs would normally fall in R2 are now R3 including one R3 PC in the Sea of Terror! Get your boats ready Dwarf your going swimming.

Thing with the Random cities. If one region has 3 and another has 0. That is about a 60k swing in gold. Well more than 50% I make controlling this region. That is a Hugh advantage that makes the game become more luck based than skill for victory. I thought about this and the clumping of PCs here is what I came up with.

Cities - 0 to 3 cities - number of cities will modify number of other PCs in region
0 cities - plus 2 towns. - say two because with cities at random spots they really become strong holds now and are an advantage.
1 city - no effect
2 cities - minus 1 town
3 cities - minus 3 towns plus 1 village
Special R5 has 1 extra city Avalon. Everyone knows where it is and helps insure R5 is bigger on average as it should be being in the center of the map.
Placing PCs subdivide the region into 4 areas of equal squares for PC placement purposes only. Have three random ways to subdivide either Rows, Columns, or quadrants. Then randomly place PCs starting with cities in each area going from quadrant to quadrants. Example. R10 is shaped kind of like a shoe is gets randomly divided into columns. R10 is 71 squaresslightly bigger than average regions so would have 4 columns of 18 18 18 and 17 squares. First column would be K-P take out WP and add to next column going from Q-T. Part of T would be split into column 3 and so on until you have 4 divided areas. Not place PCs starting with a random column number, we will use 2. And will use a set up of 2 cities 6 towns(7 randomly rolled minus 1 for two cities) and 9 villages. Columns would have
C1 - 2 towns, 2 villages
C2 - 1 city, 1 town, 3 villages
C3 - 1 city, 1 town, 2 villages
C4 - 2 towns, 2 villages
It is still possible to have clumps but small clusters and more likely to be divided around the region.

[Acererak]

The commands say 2:1 for attacking pop centers and in this case it sounds like you didn't have that even with the straight defense. There is also always a modifier that is random so as I said- I probably scored high on rolls for once and you didn't. Taking a capital you never really want to have less than 2.5:1 and that would only really be for RD, GI or TR (my thoughts anyway). If you'll recall when we were talking on turn 1 and you threatened me I said "Go ahead and impale yourself on my walls." You did that just fine. :-) I offered you an NAP but you insisted on attacking me for not agreeing to a full alliance. That qualifies as greedy in my book.

Now you have lost 7-8 brigades of troops by turn 4. And I know they're not all ogres. Somehow you've drug the Sorceror into this but if he's smart he can see you're already a shell of your former self.

Good luck, there are more surprises for both of us to come I'm sure.

To all other kingdoms: As you can clearly see the Giant has barely any military left and the Sorceror is ganging up on the lowly Nomad too. Synisvania should be wide open if your regions are feeling crowded.

Dune. Arakkis. Desert Planet.

[Beatific]

A 4 turn NAP is not an NAP. I offered you an alliance with us; which you disparaged none too kindly. But that is ok. It is an experimental game. And I have my GI brigades still intact. No worries there. Just set back some money. It is ok, though, if others wish to jump in. I expect a free for all.

Thanks for the tips on ratios. I have heard some cite different ratios, but from this experience, I think the 2.5 to 1 for military vs. military kingdoms is probably a better assumption going forward.

As for greed, a 4 turn NAP (you left out the little detail about the 4 turn in your fair seeming post) is a simple communication to the fact that first you will take your region and then you will attack us. I may be a NooB to this game, but I am a grognard war gamer. You didn't and don't fool me. Also, as I found out on my way over, I am now the least of your regional concerns (at least now). But hey, it's all good. If I can cause that much frustration in a veteran player, I am doing something right..........as I said before, I am honored at your vituperation. Can you at least show some grace to a rather cheeky NooB? Or shall I now freely post the location of your capital etc etc. Not that I would in actuality, but your free for all invitation is rather ungracious and certainly poor sportsmanship and the question rapidly becomes, where does the bad behavior end in the forums? Or maybe this is typical forum behavior? I tend to speak and write bluntly so, if this type of post is acceptable, then, well, ok. It doesn't seem to me that this type of forum communication about in game activities and conclusions is appropriate but maybe it is. The macro game (forum diplomacy) rules is still unclear to me.....maybe a little forum etiquette education for me is in order. I will search the material available, but others please chime in.

[Rogal]

So far I have seen the following, or is it not seen?

1) Still searching region 3 and no cities yet. I keep finding Eastern steppes pop centers which is not my intent, but oh well. No one ever said Dwarfs are good at Land Nav. out side of their homeland which we are still trying to figure out.

2) No one is building any defenses or I am not getting income from construction projects. If you did build (not summon) any walls, just let me know so I know if the game runs that correctly.

3) Dwarfs vs villages, I know were tuff but no damage attacking a village, pretty impressive or a slight oversight on the program.

[Jumpingfist]

I have seen nothing wrong with your posts. We need more chit chat in the forums for sure.

I also think the combat engine is not upto par yet. I have taken capitals with as low as 1.5 using the GI. GI has a defense rating that just does not let them die and keeps them in the fight longer than any other than the RD. Use those shield spells and the GI can really get crazy. But yes for this game stick with traditional combat values.

---

So far I have seen the following, or is it not seen?

1) Still searching region 3 and no cities yet. I keep finding Eastern steppes pop centers which is not my intent, but oh well. No one ever said Dwarfs are good at Land Nav. out side of their homeland which we are still trying to figure out.

2) No one is building any defenses or I am not getting income from construction projects. If you did build (not summon) any walls, just let me know so I know if the game runs that correctly.

3) Dwarfs vs villages, I know were tuff but no damage attacking a village, pretty impressive or a slight oversight on the program.

I will build a defense just for you little buddy. Curious to know if the small lower mountain range is in R6 or R3.

[Beatific]

I have seen nothing wrong with your posts. We need more chit chat in the forums for sure.

I also think the combat engine is not upto par yet. I have taken capitals with as low as 1.5 using the GI. GI has a defense rating that just does not let them die and keeps them in the fight longer than any other than the RD. Use those shield spells and the GI can really get crazy. But yes for this game stick with traditional combat values.

---

So far I have seen the following, or is it not seen?

1) Still searching region 3 and no cities yet. I keep finding Eastern steppes pop centers which is not my intent, but oh well. No one ever said Dwarfs are good at Land Nav. out side of their homeland which we are still trying to figure out.

2) No one is building any defenses or I am not getting income from construction projects. If you did build (not summon) any walls, just let me know so I know if the game runs that correctly.

3) Dwarfs vs villages, I know were tuff but no damage attacking a village, pretty impressive or a slight oversight on the program.

I will build a defense just for you little buddy. Curious to know if the small lower mountain range is in R6 or R3.

Actually I was talking about HIS post wherein he does what us old farts would call inappropriate table talk about what you see ingame (kind of like table talk during a card game). Some people are cool with it, some hate it. I don't much care, but have learned the hard way to be careful about it and then adapt my style accordingly. In this case, Ace feels free to comment on what he believes my armies condition is and invites everyone to attack our region. While I may or may not agree with his assessment, I am asking the question about in game intelligence being discussed in the forum. Is it ok, for example, for me to blab about his capitals location, army locations, town locations, army condition, etc in the forum. Some would say that that is unacceptable. If I read between the lines in your post, though, JF. You are saying that it is ok with no conditions (anything goes) and that this should actually be encouraged. Am I right? Or is this one of those things that there are no rules.....ie. some do and some do not talk thusly and so it is pretty much a part of your persona. No rancor or hard feelings, Ace, but I do really need to figure out this part of the game and so I ask openly (since you volunteered so freely your opinion on my status, I really don't feel all that bad about bringing it up or calling you on it to emphasize the point). CAN we (not should we) do that without breaking some agreed upon rule by the site admins or other experienced players? If so, it adds a very interesting dimension to this game albeit at the cost of a less cordial gentlemanly atmosphere. Does this make sense? Or is this just a stupid question that nobody answers (which basically then is interpreted as "it is ok to do" since it creates additional tactical opportunities with reputation then becoming a very interesting coin). I actually like the possibility that this is the case, but do not want to assume it because experience shows that it really does piss some folks off to the point of quitting the game or even site altogether.