Exploits

[VballMichael]

You make a good point Ohman. I was thinking about a normal trade with my teammate along with selling an artifact. Not an exploit. Here's the problem. I have never done multiple trades just to make more money and that exploit did not exist before ToT. So, apparently some folks figured out the exploit and used it. Now the multiple trades have to go away. I am in total agreement. I never even thought I could move a group across bad terrain like water by intercepting my own group since I know my group cannot cross the water. As Rick said, we all know the general intents of these rules. Let's play fair.

I am 100% in favor of immediate removal of any exploit.

[Acererak]

I really value sportsmanship and to play within the intentions of the game, and I am very negative on exploits.  I'm disappointed they aren't reported.  Seriously, does someone think multiple trades with the same kingdom to create gold out of nothing to take advantage of a loophole in Trick of the Trade is just fine, taking advantage of your fellow players?  Have your Baron tell your people to rebel against your king?  Intercept your own group to nullify a terrain restriction?  Come on.  It feels like cheating at golf.  Yeah, maybe Rick should have anticipated every possible breach, or Mike should have had more trip wires, but really, this is about the integrity of the game and I am adamant.  I will be disappointed if someone supports these exploits.  I haven't been hot in quite a while, this is close though. 

There is a game, Star Web by Flying Buffalo.  They have 1.5 pages of rules (maybe 8 paragraphs, not atypical for Flying Buffalo games) and there are four different actions you can take.  They don't have loopholes.  So, is that better design?  I can give the url if anyone thinks that's their kind of game. 

We try to create the most engrossing, entertaining, deep, unpredictable, exciting turn based strategy games anywhere among humans instead of AI.  And we work all the time to make it even better.  We like to think we succeed, and have the trophies and reviews to back up the claim.  I want to keep it that way.  I've asked Charles (Suspense & Decision) and others to let me know what other "major"  PBEM's have done in the last five years to improve their game experience.  Have no answers.

Agree 100%.

[RELLGAR]

You make a good point Ohman. I was thinking about a normal trade with my teammate along with selling an artifact. Not an exploit. Here's the problem. I have never done multiple trades just to make more money and that exploit did not exist before ToT. So, apparently some folks figured out the exploit and used it. Now the multiple trades have to go away. I am in total agreement. I never even thought I could move a group across bad terrain like water by intercepting my own group since I know my group cannot cross the water. As Rick said, we all know the general intents of these rules. Let's play fair.

I am 100% in favor of immediate removal of any exploit.

ToT worked as it was described in my opinion.  You don't need to make multiple trades in a turn to make more gold, you can just make one trade a turn, then gift it back to the kingdom who Traded it to you and keep increasing it with the bonus and making more every turn. Once you saved the gold from a few turns of this you have a bank of 500k Gold and are making a bonus of 125k Gold a turn that the 2 kingdom's share. Eventually you get to 1 million Gold trades and each have an xtra 125k Gold to spend a turn. All that's needed to fix making these amounts  is to put a cap on the ToT bonus that can be made each turn. This way it doesn't limit using other orders, especially the kingdoms that don't have ToT.

[Ohman the heartless]

Everyone you did not read my entire post. TOT is an exploit I AGREE, it should be CORRECTED. You change PUBLISHED rules MID-GAME, and I say you are not closing the barn door, but burning down the barn. Making 2 trades not involving TOT is not an EXPLOIT.
You are broad brushing a bad problem by REVAMPING the game. Correct ANY and ALL exploits when they are discovered. That is a benefit to the game. I am not defending the TOT angle, nor any lapse in the rules that should be corrected. I am outraged though by the way this was arbitrarily used as an EXCUSE, to label all trades in the 200 range of the KINGDOM menu as an EXPLOIT, and thus limit them.
Trades have been an established part of this game since the 1980's. I know I have an original copy. Copyrighted by Rick McDowell in 1987, with second edition published in 1992 They are printed in the current rules section as well!

[Ry Vor]

I am not really following your logic, Ohman. 

When we find an exploit, as we have done sense the Resurgence in 2013, we squash it then and there.  We don't give weeks notice to exploit the exploit.

I want our players to report these kind of perversions, and though it may sound weak, I can't predict every potential exploit with how the Alamaze myriad possibilities interact with themselves. 

Look, I am confident at least 95% of us want the experience to play out as we imagine it, not wrecked by some unanticipated unturned stone.

[Ohman the heartless]

This discussion has gotten me into rereading Rick's old rules. One that I find interesting, and may be of future interest for Confederation games was the 499 order/Appeals to the Gods. May be a way of growing the interest in team play.
Tough to qualify, but if qualified the rewards could help a position reverse it's fortunes.

[Ohman the heartless]

Ry Vor
I totally agree that Exploits need to be eliminated. What I fail to see is how lumping TOT cheating with a totally new limitation on the 200 class kingdom orders to 1 per turn is fixing the exploit?

[Ry Vor]

This discussion has gotten me into rereading Rick's old rules.  One that I find interesting, and may be of future interest for Confederation games was the 499 order/Appeals to the Gods.  May be a way of growing the interest in team play.
Tough to qualify, but if qualified the rewards could help a position reverse it's fortunes.

Might be a good point on Confederations and Warlords, Ohman.  Opinions?

[Ohman the heartless]

Ry Vor
Simply change the rules in the published downloadable version to reflect these changes. I got angry in that I had my orders completed, and saved the day I received them. Had I been unable to review them, then 3 positions orders would have failed to be corrected.
Also, if reading this forum for updates is required to play the game correctly, then that should be noted prominently on the turn report or some other readily available source for new players. Just a 40 year game players opinion. And, yes this is by far the BEST turn based game on the market. Thanks for listening to my rant.

[Ohman the heartless]

The old Appeals to the gods was available 1 time only throughout the game. If you'd like I can send a copy of the order description to you or support, or Rick as I have his game email address.