Bitch / Gripes / Improvement Ideas...Share

[Senior Tactician]

Couple things I've noticed:

1)  The new political tool is off, by a lot.  I've never failed so often than since I've started using it.
2)  The new unusual encounter tool is off, by a lot, I've never failed so often than since I started using it.
3)  You cannot use the alter of the holy ancients AND the Oracle of the old gods in the same turn.  The checker won't give you an error, but in your turn result the second use will fail.
4)  If you have two emissaries with Red Elk Mounts, the second use will fail.  Still.  I think I pointed this out like years ago.

[Pine Needle]

Couple things I've noticed:

1)  The new political tool is off, by a lot.  I've never failed so often than since I've started using it.
2)  The new unusual encounter tool is off, by a lot, I've never failed so often than since I started using it.

I've noticed 2) but not 1). I think "GOOD" used to mean certainly and now its a much lower percentage. So the old method of choosing the safest green tactic no longer guarantees success like it used to. I've starting going harder on tactics to get artifacts.

Surprise surprise, my leaders keep dying.

[Strongwill]

Revelation spell is too over powered John. Needs to be a P 10 spell

[Maximus Dominus]

Revelation spell is too over powered John.  Needs to be a P 10 spell

Changing what power level that a wizards needs to be at, in order to cast the same overpowered spell, won't alter the underlying problem - namely, that the Revelation spell, itself, is overpowered. Changing the power level that the wizard has to be at, in order to cast the same, exact spell will only serve to shift the focus to the power level of the wizard, which is not what's causing the actual problem with the Revelation spell, to begin with.

Wizards, to, are overpowered, but there's different reasons that, collectively, are responsible for that.

The core problem with the Revelation spell lies not with the concept of the spell, itself, but rather, with the chosen method of implementation of that particular spell. Whenever it is cast, it kind of reminds me of players in a game of poker being able to always draw a royal flush.

The casting of the spell consistently provides a plethora of information on the targeted kingdom. There's no risk to the wizard casting this spell. What specific information that the Revelation spell yields when cast should be randomized, with variable chances of receiving a particular sub-set of information pulled from a larger overall whole. If the desire is for Revelation to yield a large quantity of info, then make what information it provides to be random, and have it to pull from multiple (or even all) kingdoms, instead of just one. A bit of this, a dash of that, but what the player wouldn't end up with is the equivalent of a motherlode of information on the same kingdom, all at once. Furthermore, induce the possibility of failure, rather than the spell automatically being a success, when cast, as it is, currently.

In other words, dilute the quantity and/or the quality of information that the spell, if successfully cast, can obtain. Maybe it sometimes yields more information that others, and at times, it yields very little information. Change it from a kingdom-specific targeting spell, to a chance to obtain information from multiple or all kingdoms, instead of just from the kingdom that a player most wants to obtain information on.

The underlying concept of the spell as an information gathering device, of sorts, really isn't a bad idea. It reminds me of prophecy spells in Hyborian War, in a way. The spell doesn't need to be gotten rid of, entirely - just modified. And if it were modified, as I've outlined here, there could still exist a possibility (but not a guarantee) that now and again when Revelation gets cast, a given player casting it might just end up getting lucky, and receiving a substantial amount of information on whatever particular kingdom that they are wanting to know more about.

An additional thought, that came to me just now, is that the casting of the spell could potentially (but again, no guarantee) yield information over a span of more than one turn. This way, information could trickle in, but in order to cast it, the player would be incurring the risk that the character/wizard in question could be out of action for a span of one or more turns, and thus, unavailable for any other actions of any kind. It would be similar to a comatose state, but one where the gods would reveal various bits of information, but the player wouldn't have any control over how long that their character would remain comatose or receive information.

[Strongwill]

Good points, could make it cost a couple of levels of magic or just get rid of it?

[Maximus Dominus]

Good points, could make it cost a couple of levels of magic or just get rid of it?

That comment made me think of how agents sometimes lose levels, when missions go bad. Perhaps wizards could run the risk of death, or losing levels, when they cast Revelation.

[Wookie Panz]

Revelation spell is too over powered John.  Needs to be a P 10 spell

Changing what power level that a wizards needs to be at, in order to cast the same overpowered spell, won't alter the underlying problem - namely, that the Revelation spell, itself, is overpowered. Changing the power level that the wizard has to be at, in order to cast the same, exact spell will only serve to shift the focus to the power level of the wizard, which is not what's causing the actual problem with the Revelation spell, to begin with.

Wizards, to, are overpowered, but there's different reasons that, collectively, are responsible for that.

The core problem with the Revelation spell lies not with the concept of the spell, itself, but rather, with the chosen method of implementation of that particular spell. Whenever it is cast, it kind of reminds me of players in a game of poker being able to always draw a royal flush.

The casting of the spell consistently provides a plethora of information on the targeted kingdom. There's no risk to the wizard casting this spell. What specific information that the Revelation spell yields when cast should be randomized, with variable chances of receiving a particular sub-set of information pulled from a larger overall whole. If the desire is for Revelation to yield a large quantity of info, then make what information it provides to be random, and have it to pull from multiple (or even all) kingdoms, instead of just one. A bit of this, a dash of that, but what the player wouldn't end up with is the equivalent of a motherlode of information on the same kingdom, all at once. Furthermore, induce the possibility of failure, rather than the spell automatically being a success, when cast, as it is, currently.

In other words, dilute the quantity and/or the quality of information that the spell, if successfully cast, can obtain. Maybe it sometimes yields more information that others, and at times, it yields very little information. Change it from a kingdom-specific targeting spell, to a chance to obtain information from multiple or all kingdoms, instead of just from the kingdom that a player most wants to obtain information on.

The underlying concept of the spell as an information gathering device, of sorts, really isn't a bad idea. It reminds me of prophecy spells in Hyborian War, in a way. The spell doesn't need to be gotten rid of, entirely - just modified. And if it were modified, as I've outlined here, there could still exist a possibility (but not a guarantee) that now and again when Revelation gets cast, a given player casting it might just end up getting lucky, and receiving a substantial amount of information on whatever particular kingdom that they are wanting to know more about.

An additional thought, that came to me just now, is that the casting of the spell could potentially (but again, no guarantee) yield information over a span of more than one turn. This way, information could trickle in, but in order to cast it, the player would be incurring the risk that the character/wizard in question could be out of action for a span of one or more turns, and thus, unavailable for any other actions of any kind. It would be similar to a comatose state, but one where the gods would reveal various bits of information, but the player wouldn't have any control over how long that their character would remain comatose or receive information.

I keep equating the revelation spell to the priestess spells and wonder if it should be more like that? 
 When you cast it you get a drop down choice, characters, groups, pc's and get to pick only one.  The you could limit the spell to only once a turn per kingdom. 
 Also make it available as a scroll that you can make with mithril at a low enough level that the non magic kingdoms can get it.

[Strongwill]

If you do that Dan, then the spell isn’t much more than other things that can be done in the game. IMO if we reduce the spell then it shouldn’t be a high level spell because no one will use it. I like the idea of treating it like Ancient Intervention spell. Lose two levels and used only once? You could also say every kingdom in game can only be hit by it one time in the game, so if someone else did it you would be out of luck. You could also waste two levels of magic and cast it on yourself to stop anyone else in the game from using it against you? Just some ideas.

[Maximus Dominus]

If you do that Dan, then the spell isn’t much more than other things that can be done in the game. IMO if we reduce the spell then it shouldn’t be a high level spell because no one will use it. I like the idea of treating it like Ancient Intervention spell. Lose two levels and used only once?  You could also say every kingdom in game can only be hit by it one time in the game, so if someone else did it you would be out of luck. You could also waste two levels of magic and cast it on yourself to stop anyone else in the game from using it against you? Just some ideas.

Players casting a Revelation spell against themselves to prevent other players from casting it against them, while clever, certainly, strikes me as something that doesn't really make any  sense, from the kingdom perspective (which is distinct from the player perspective).

Is the objective to render the Revelation spell impotent and useless? Or is it to transform the spell into something that is not overpowered, or not nearly so overpowered?

If the effectiveness and reliability of the spell are diminished, then that would deal with the overpowered issue, which is the real issue of the Revelation spell, isn't it? Or if casting the spell carries with it risk to the wizard casting it, then that might reduce the temptation of players to resort to the spell frequently.

Using an information-gathering spell against your own kingdom, how does that even make any sense? If that is the right approach, then should players also be able to carry out other actions against their own kingdom, in order to derive a tangible benefit therefrom? Why not let players steal gold or food from their own kingdom's population centers, to gain advantage in the form of improving their agents' skill levels? It just strikes me as really odd to embrace approaches where they're doing stuff to their own kingdom that makes no real sense, if the kingdoms were real entities. It just strikes me as little more than player manipulation to enhance a player's interest, rather than a kingdom pursuing policies and action in-game that enhance a kingdom's interests.

Limiting the Revelation spell to being cast just once per game against all other kingdoms would do nothing to limit the spell's overpowered aspect in the instances where it is used. If a random chance of success of the spell's casting, and a random chance of the degree of success, are utilized, then the possibility for receiving a lot of good and useful information would remain intact, but the likelihood of it would/could be severely diminished. Currently, as things are now, the spell being cast is a guarantee of a lot of information, consistently.

[Strongwill]

No, you missed my point, the only reason one would use it against them self would be to keep the rest of the players for the remainder of the game from casting it against your kingdom to gather your info. This only makes sense if only one can be cast per game against a specific kingdom. Kinda like sacrificing troops or destroying one of your pops on a border to increase the range of an enemy emmie from moving into your region because it will increase his range past what he can move. Solely a strategic calculation a king would make.