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**Ry Vor** · 09-23-2015, 10:29 PM

As the dude that has to bang his head the most on this subject, at this point, I just think what we tried to do with Independence - no early trading, no Game Long NAP, no deal longer than six turns, is what I have at this point. I recognize the 3 v 1 issue, but I don't know if anyone has solved that in other games, say Risk, for example. The answer seems to be being diplomatic, as in, well, Diplomacy. I prefer the possibly nebulous agreements over the 5 page, 16 point agreements. I just don't see it as constructive about posting about a possibly broken agreement on the forum.

**Rogal** · 09-23-2015, 10:32 PM

Going back to the old days when the game first launched, was 3 vs 1 not as big a deal since the game soon ended with a team victory? I like Rex, but it drags on when your fighting against long odds.

**Ry Vor** · 09-23-2015, 11:10 PM

I can see that, but our general philosophy is stay in for 12 turns, then if its more fun to join a new game, that's ok.

**HeadHoncho** · 09-24-2015, 02:55 PM

Just checking, is it 12, or 10? Originally it was 12, but more recently you've said 10.

Separately, is there a limit any more on when a standby might be inserted? Would be good to clarify and let people know, as I know it has caused some confusion lately. Thanks.

**Ry Vor** · (This post was last modified: 09-24-2015, 04:19 PM by Ry Vor.)

Yes, I have not been hard and fast on either score. We want to avoid early drops, and assure players that a perfect turn is unusual, not the norm, so don't drop when everything doesn't go as planned. We have seen written recently about how when you are in a game, you kind of have an obligation to the other players. Some have expressed this in recent days on this forum, and I mentioned it a couple weeks ago that if you were getting together with your buds for Axis and Allies, you don't quit after an hour. Not dropping is especially crucial in Magic (team) and Warlords games.

Which brings up the standby position. We have replaced some positions late in games, but it is generally for an early drop. I'm not sure it is important to have a set rule, and we have let it be known in a Magic game, a remaining player can take over a position for a dropping team mate.

We've actually had a lot more success with not having early drops than we did with early Alamaze or Fall of Rome. It has always been a blight on PBEM strategy games, and we just try to feel our way through it. I think we try to be responsive and treat each case individually. If the community wants set protocol, it actually makes it easier on me.

**HeadHoncho** · 09-24-2015, 04:21 PM

So it sounds like there's no more "no later than T12" limit on standby insertions. I think that's totally fine, by the way, but it will probably avoid frustration if that limit removal is clearly communicated.

On drops, I personally believe a nebulous obligation is less helpful here, since few players enjoy doing poorly and being pounded on for an extended period of time, and to the extent you stick with the game slots formula, they are going to want to know when they can free up that slot. And it's not healthy or helpful, I believe, for players to be guilted into continued play.

Until further notice, then, I will personally continue with the end-of-T10 guideline for the earliest turn to drop "in good standing" since that's the last thing I've seen you clearly indicate.

**Frost Lord** · 09-25-2015, 05:36 AM

Rick,

We do track drops in Valhalla...though we do not point them out to everyone. In Fall of Rome, you had an honorific called "Honor". If you are interested, we could implement something similar when we revamp Valhalla for 3rd Cycle.

For example:
You gain honor for staying in 1-3 games past turn 18
You lose honor for dropping before turn 10 or turn 12
You lose honor if you drop without giving a notice (i.e. By sending an email to you at least 2 turns or a week in advance - so you would have ample time to fill it with a standby)

These are just examples and I would defer to you for the exact criteria.

Just something to think about...

FL

**Ry Vor** · 09-25-2015, 01:17 PM

(09-25-2015, 05:36 AM)Frost Lord Wrote: Rick,

We do track drops in Valhalla...though we do not point them out to everyone. In Fall of Rome, you had an honorific called "Honor". If you are interested, we could implement something similar when we revamp Valhalla for 3rd Cycle.

For example:
You gain honor for staying in 1-3 games past turn 18
You lose honor for dropping before turn 10 or turn 12
You lose honor if you drop without giving a notice (i.e. By sending an email to you at least 2 turns or a week in advance - so you would have ample time to fill it with a standby)

These are just examples and I would defer to you for the exact criteria.

Just something to think about...

FL

Some good stuff. We had that kind of thing in the original Valhalla ("outcast" status) but didn't keep that.

**IMPERIAL_TARK** · 09-25-2015, 02:34 PM

Perhaps a point (or two) as well if you are still in a game when it ends and you finish in the bottom third of a 12/15 player game. If you stuck around till the bitter end even when you had no real chance of winning, seems honorable to me (or foolish) Smile

Perhaps might encourage people to not drop as well.

**Lord Diamond** · 09-25-2015, 03:07 PM

(09-25-2015, 02:34 PM)IMPERIAL_TARK Wrote: Perhaps a point (or two) as well if you are still in a game when it ends and you finish in the bottom third of a 12/15 player game. If you stuck around till the bitter end even when you had no real chance of winning, seems honorable to me (or foolish) Perhaps might encourage people to not drop as well.

I like that idea.