5511 Fall Steel

[Senior Tactician]

I think you would have taken it...

Do you really think so? What about the rest of you, do you concur that it would have been possible to get it? A lot of bonuses yes, but still... And isn't the capital bonus added to defence as well, or is it already counted into that value of ~235k?

Would be interesting to see what you guys think, for future reference... 

I think so.

There are two questions you have to ask when trying to figure whether or not you can capture a PC... 1) can you do enough damage to overcome the defense, and 2)  Can you overcome the defense without reaching your retreat threshold (around 50% or so?).  If the city is worth 235,000 all things being equal it will do 235,000 damage to your group, and you must overcome 235,000 defense to overcome the PC.

This is where the logic of the 2 to 1 ratio come into play... for instance if you group is worth 20,000 and you attack a town with 10,000 and all your troops are "average" defense, you can expect to take 10,000 damage and lose half your force, but overcoming the defense before you retreat, and capturing the town.

For calculating how much damage you need to overcome the towns defense, your 20,000 value is obviously more than enough to do that.  The question there is can you do it before you retreat.

As your troops become tougher (elite brigades, tougher brigades like dragons or mammoths, trolls or hill giants), the 2 to 1 ratio kind of goes out the window.  For instance, if your group value is only 10,000 and the town you are capturing is 10,000... but all your troops are elite, you have a shot.  Your attack is 10,000, enough to overcome the town... but your defense is NOT 10,000...  its 10,000 multiplied by your defense factor.  Elite brigades with insane defense, "renowned, ultimate, awesome... etc"  multiply your defense value by a constant, sometimes as much as 5 or more... so a group worth 10,000 could have 50,000 defense.

The AM group, with a dozen elite brigades, and especially the mammoths would have a very decent defense.  I'm not going to do all the calculations, its take me a long time... but 235,000 minus the fear  (I think mammoths are only 10%) plus a power 6 fear is 40% total, so the PC value is only about 140,000.  Windstorm cuts this down to 70,000 damage output.  So, the amazon group has to do 140,000 damage to the PC and has to withstand 70,000 damage without retreating.

This will all change with the new rules... thankfully.  I think that despite looking as if the AM was half the size of the PC, he may have taken it anyway.  The AM vs PC group value of 106,000 does not take into account artifacts, elite brigades, valor, etc.

[Strongwill]

I think you would have taken it...

Do you really think so? What about the rest of you, do you concur that it would have been possible to get it? A lot of bonuses yes, but still... And isn't the capital bonus added to defence as well, or is it already counted into that value of ~235k?

Would be interesting to see what you guys think, for future reference... 

I think so.

There are two questions you have to ask when trying to figure whether or not you can capture a PC... 1) can you do enough damage to overcome the defense, and 2)  Can you overcome the defense without reaching your retreat threshold (around 50% or so?).  If the city is worth 235,000 all things being equal it will do 235,000 damage to your group, and you must overcome 235,000 defense to overcome the PC.

This is where the logic of the 2 to 1 ratio come into play... for instance if you group is worth 20,000 and you attack a town with 10,000 and all your troops are "average" defense, you can expect to take 10,000 damage and lose half your force, but overcoming the defense before you retreat, and capturing the town.

For calculating how much damage you need to overcome the towns defense, your 20,000 value is obviously more than enough to do that.  The question there is can you do it before you retreat.

As your troops become tougher (elite brigades, tougher brigades like dragons or mammoths, trolls or hill giants), the 2 to 1 ratio kind of goes out the window.  For instance, if your group value is only 10,000 and the town you are capturing is 10,000... but all your troops are elite, you have a shot.  Your attack is 10,000, enough to overcome the town... but your defense is NOT 10,000...  its 10,000 multiplied by your defense factor.  Elite brigades with insane defense, "renowned, ultimate, awesome... etc"  multiply your defense value by a constant, sometimes as much as 5 or more... so a group worth 10,000 could have 50,000 defense.

The AM group, with a dozen elite brigades, and especially the mammoths would have a very decent defense.  I'm not going to do all the calculations, its take me a long time... but 235,000 minus the fear  (I think mammoths are only 10%) plus a power 6 fear is 40% total, so the PC value is only about 140,000.  Windstorm cuts this down to 70,000 damage output.  So, the amazon group has to do 140,000 damage to the PC and has to withstand 70,000 damage without retreating.

This will all change with the new rules... thankfully.  I think that despite looking as if the AM was half the size of the PC, he may have taken it anyway.  The AM vs PC group value of 106,000 does not take into account artifacts, elite brigades, valor, etc.

Hahaha  didn’t I say that but in a different way?  Lol  good explanation.

[RELLGAR]

I agree, yes you likely would have.

[Windstar]

Maybe we could ask Uncle Mike to run a sample battle for this question and tell us the results just for things and giggles?

[Dwellomir]

Thanks guys, and especially Senior Tactician for the thorough explanation! Some were known to me from before, but some new as well. And yes, would be interesting to see a simulation, if unclemike DO happen to have the time and energy to do the extra work...understand very well if you don’t.

[Wookie Panz]

We have several new and returning players.  Do you guys need any help getting started?  Maybe someone not in this game could give you a hand if you need it.

[Senior Tactician]

There is no point in trying to decipher the old system, things are changing in the next update, including a way to better calculate your groups defense value... so, I guess just be patient