Game 5684

[Maximus Dominus]

Nice job Max, most people just use the HC to raise their influence.

Whenever experienced players resort to the use of acronyms/abbreviations, such as you using HC in the instance above, players with less experience or no experience don't automatically grasp what you are referring to.

It took several minutes for it to sink into me that HC referred to High Council. It was only when I was at the cusp of asking you what you meant by HC that it finally dawned upon me.

As a general observation, abbreviations/acronyms become a language all their own, and with the passage of time, experienced players think nothing of them. But if you're someone new just reading through the forum, it isn't always obvious what is being said or referred to.

Ideally, in any game, everyone would always be on the same page in their understanding of what is being said. When some layers don't understand what is being said, then that is the equivalent of everyone not being on the same page. Abbreviations/acronyms have a learning curve all their own.

I think for experienced Alamaze players, abbreviations/acronyms are an acquired habit. It's not a deliberate attempt to make things harder on new and inexperienced players. I do know from past experience that just reading forum postings in the forum, here, without even trying to learn how to play the game, struck me as maddening, at times. Abbreviations/acronyms, especially when used in abundance (as is often the case with the identification of kingdoms), slow the reader down, and force one who doesn't know what they mean to look them up or just continue reading without a full understanding of what is being said.

With no less than 32 kingdoms currently available for Alamaze players to choose from, that also means that 32 kingdom abbreviations come into play. This is without accounting for any additional abbreviations that come into existence over time, such as HC for High Council. Previous iterations of Alamaze and other kingdoms available for play, which are no longer available in the current version. If a newcomer begins reading the forum, then they encounter such obsolete abbreviations, also, depending upon which forum postings that they read.

How do you get experienced players to change habits that they have acquired over time? Arguably, that's one of the hardest things to achieve. For those who understand the lingo of abbreviations/acronyms, it's not "broken." But if experienced players of Alamaze want to do something to assist new and inexperienced players to ease their way into the game, doing something as simple as not abbreviating is one way that experienced players can do that.

[Strongwill]

If I understand, stealing gold/food/mithral or sabotaging a PC or recon will require you to overcome the CE associated with fortifications.  Kidnap does not (at least, it's not supposed to) I assumed stealing an artifact would not, but I think it does, it's the only explanation for my colossal failure.

Kidnap without a sleep has a bit of CE too. Have to overcome the fortification, and counter agent or agents also. I remember that a great player told me to use a bunch of lvl ones to protect a high value target. Multi attempts better chance to fail roll and kill the agent? Not sure if that’s a solid plan anymore.

[Wookie Panz]

Nice job Max, most people just use the HC to raise their influence.

Whenever experienced players resort to the use of acronyms/abbreviations, such as you using HC in the instance above, players with less experience or no experience don't automatically grasp what you are referring to.

It took several minutes for it to sink into me that HC referred to High Council. It was only when I was at the cusp of asking you what you meant by HC that it finally dawned upon me.

As a general observation, abbreviations/acronyms become a language all their own, and with the passage of time, experienced players think nothing of them. But if you're someone new just reading through the forum, it isn't always obvious what is being said or referred to.

Ideally, in any game, everyone would always be on the same page in their understanding of what is being said. When some layers don't understand what is being said, then that is the equivalent of everyone not being on the same page. Abbreviations/acronyms have a learning curve all their own.

I think for experienced Alamaze players, abbreviations/acronyms are an acquired habit. It's not a deliberate attempt to make things harder on new and inexperienced players. I do know from past experience that just reading forum postings in the forum, here, without even trying to learn how to play the game, struck me as maddening, at times. Abbreviations/acronyms, especially when used in abundance (as is often the case with the identification of kingdoms), slow the reader down, and force one who doesn't know what they mean to look them up or just continue reading without a full understanding of what is being said.

With no less than 32 kingdoms currently available for Alamaze players to choose from, that also means that 32 kingdom abbreviations come into play. This is without accounting for any additional abbreviations that come into existence over time, such as HC for High Council. Previous iterations of Alamaze and other kingdoms available for play, which are no longer available in the current version. If a newcomer begins reading the forum, then they encounter such obsolete abbreviations, also, depending upon which forum postings that they read.

How do you get experienced players to change habits that they have acquired over time? Arguably, that's one of the hardest things to achieve. For those who understand the lingo of abbreviations/acronyms, it's not "broken." But if experienced players of Alamaze want to do something to assist new and inexperienced players to ease their way into the game, doing something as simple as not abbreviating is one way that experienced players can do that.

Hi Maximus, (Max);
In an effort to avoid confusion of anyone, as you suggest, above, I propose that we make an effort use full words in the first occasion followed by an abbreviation if we intend to use one.  So if I was to discuss the High Counsel (H.C.)  issue being taken up by the Sacred Order (SC)  in order to create more  standing orders (S.O's)  I hope you would not think I was being an ass hole (A.H.)

[Maximus Dominus]

Hi Maximus, (Max);
In an effort to avoid confusion of anyone, as you suggest, above, I propose that we make an effort use full words in the first occasion followed by an abbreviation if we intend to use one.  So if I was to discuss the High Counsel (H.C.)  issue being taken up by the Sacred Order (SC)  in order to create more  standing orders (S.O's)  I hope you would not think I was being an ass hole (A.H.)

Nah, I don't think you're an asshole, at all, Wookie Panz. Abbreviations is just one of those things that happens in a lot of games, but it is a practice that inadvertently creates the potential for confusion. It isn't as though players who are new or inexperienced simply absorb all of the abbreviations via osmosis. Trying to quickly grasp everything, and there's a LOT about Alamaze to grasp, is made all the harder, once a player also has to contend with a bunch of abbreviations. Furthermore, the less letters that comprise the abbreviations, the harder it is to swiftly sift through them, unless one has the benefit of time and experience in dealing with them.

As an example, Alamaze kingdom abbreviations tend to be comprised of two letters.

FT = FREE TRADERS
DE = DEMON PRINCES

Plus, Alamaze has an inconsistent method of abbreviating.

If FT = Free Traders (uses the first letter of both words that comprise the kingdom name), then why does DE = Demon Princes, instead of DP?

By comparison, Hyborian War kingdom abbreviations are comprised of four letters.

AMAZ = Amazonia
NEME = Nemedia

But even Hyborian War has RAJA = Khoraja. Again, a lack of consistency, due to KHOR being the abbreviation for a non-player kingdom, Khorbul. Which begs the question of, why would a non-player kingdom receive priority over a player kingdom in the game?

The point that I would underscore is that a lack of consistency, where abbreviations are concerned, add to the overall learning curve for players learning and remember all of the game's "pieces" that are in play. The more "things" that a given player has to both learn and remember, the longer that it can take for a typical player to "master" the game in all of its many and varied nuances.

Learning curves tend to come in many varied forms, also. Imagine stacking all of the individual learning curves for Alamaze on top of one another, kind of like stacking Jenga blocks. It isn't as though Alamaze has only a single learning curve associated with it. The learning curves (plural) of abbreviations in Alamaze are on top of all of the other learning curves instilled within the game's design. The rulebook, for example, isn't just one learning curve. Each individual rule is a learning curve. Each individual kingdom is a learning curve. Then, too, each individual kingdom's special abilities and such are individual learning curves, also. I wonder how many experienced players could name all 32 kingdoms that are playable in Alamaze, without referring back to anything or any reference. If it were all actually broken down, I think that even the most experienced of Alamaze players might be surprised at how many learning curves, total, are encompassed within the game.

The complexity, of course, adds flavor. It also breeds confusion. And the resort to abbreviations within the forum discussions are an entirely unnecessary complication. It reminds me of trying to read shorthand, for those of you who are familiar with what that is. To those "in the know," abbreviations are no big deal. But for new and inexperienced player, for those who are NOT "in the know," resort to abbreviations make it more difficult to follow along with conversations posted in the Alamaze forum.

The proliferation of abbreviations is one of the primary reasons why I didn't share a lot of stuff posted in Alamaze forum postings, back when I was publishing PBM Unearthed. For readers who knew nothing, whatsoever, about Alamaze, it required translations (edits), of sorts, which was simply more time-consuming than just sharing an article. What's the point of "getting the word out" about Alamaze, if people who encounter it still don't know what is being referred to? From my perspective, abbreviations frequently facilitate obscurity.

[Maximus Dominus]

QUESTION: When logged into a game of Alamaze, how do I tell where my standing orders issued in a previous turn are displayed?

So far, I don't see it on any tab that I click on for this game.

[Maximus Dominus]

QUESTION: If I set as a standing order that a particular character would train on a given turn, then will that character automatically train the following turn? If so, then I will still be able to issue an order for that character on the next turn. Can I issue another train order, thereby resulting in the character training twice in a give turn? Or would the character only train once during that next turn, and I would have wasted an opportunity to have that same character do a different order in that turn, in conjunction with the training achieved via the issuance of the standing order to train issued the turn before?

[Wookie Panz]

QUESTION: When logged into a game of Alamaze, how do I tell where my standing orders issued in a previous turn are displayed?

So far, I don't see it on any tab that I click on for this game.

You can look at your orders summary from the last turn and you will see all of the Standing Orders you have issued.

---

QUESTION: If I set as a standing order that a particular character would train on a given turn, then will that character automatically train the following turn? If so, then I will still be able to issue an order for that character on the next turn. Can I issue another train order, thereby resulting in the character training twice in a give turn? Or would the character only train once during that next turn, and I would have wasted an opportunity to have that same character do a different order in that turn, in conjunction with the training achieved via the issuance of the standing order to train issued the turn before?

When you have a standing order to train someone the order will execute when the number of the order comes up provided that you have the funds available and also that your character is alive and has not already done a lower numbered order.  
Remember , Max, that a character can only execute 1 order and the lowest numbered order goes first.  Your standing order will fail if your character was already used for something else but the order is still a standing order for next turn.
As with everything in Alamaze, sequence is of very high importance and the best players have become masters of using the sequence to advantage.

[Maximus Dominus]

QUESTION: When logged into a game of Alamaze, how do I tell where my standing orders issued in a previous turn are displayed?

So far, I don't see it on any tab that I click on for this game.

You can look at your orders summary from the last turn and you will see all of the Standing Orders you have issued.

So, the information in question isn't listed on the current turn's orders screen, as a reminder to the player?

How does a new player intuitively know that it's only available, if they load the last turn's orders?

Reload the last turn, look at and write down/make a mental note (provided that they don't forget, while going between turns), and then load the new turn again?

Since the system tracks the standing orders, anyway, wouldn't it make more sense for it to visually alert/display, somehow, that particular information for the player, while on the screen to issue orders for the new turn? It seems to me that that would be the more intuitive approach of the two.

[Maximus Dominus]

When you have a standing order to train someone the order will execute when the number of the order comes up provided that you have the funds available and also that your character is alive and has not already done a lower numbered order.  
Remember , Max, that a character can only execute 1 order and the lowest numbered order goes first.  Your standing order will fail if your character was already used for something else but the order is still a standing order for next turn.
As with everything in Alamaze, sequence is of very high importance and the best players have become masters of using the sequence to advantage.

Thank you kindly for that response, Wookie Panz.

[Maximus Dominus]

Turn orders for the Underworld are in.