Game 5736 - Full Communication - 12 Player Game - 48 Hour Turn Interval

[Maximus Dominus]

Battle between the 1st Cimmerians army group and the 3rd Demon Princes army group in the plains of area VX:
                                                  Cimmerians                                  Demon Princes

                                      Commanders
                    Warlord Korus                  Captain Major Zed the Impaler
                    Warlord Son of Krull            Centurion Hound of Hell
                    Commander Shade of Mist         

                                        Wizards
                        Power-5 Xorian              Power-3 Incubus
                        Power-4 Spellweaver        Power-2 Red Son of Dre
                                                   

                                        Brigades
                    4 Cimmerians Veteran          3 Demon Princes Regular
                    3 Mammoths Regular            3 Orcs Regular
                    1 Paladins Elite              2 Zamorans Regular
                    1 Paladins Veteran            6 Zamorans Green
                    2 Paladins Regular           
                    3 Wildlings Veteran         

                                      Combat Factors
                      Renowned Leaders              None

                                    Tactical Selection
                    Determined Attack              Determined Attack


    At this moment in the struggle, losses suffered by the 3rd Demon Princes had gone beyond
    the original threshold planned. As a withdrawal was attempted, the field commanders of the
    3rd Demon Princes assigned the duties of relaying withdrawal commands were dismayed as the
    effects of the enemy's mesmerizing magic prevented their comrades from retreating as
    ordered. To their credit, the 3rd Demon Princes forces continued to fight as trained. With
    higher than expected losses, Captain Major Zed the Impaler had no choice but to order the
    Demon Princes force to withdraw. The leaders of the Demon Princes force managed the
    retreat fairly well, all considered. Demon Princes casualties were put at 100%. The group
    was destroyed! Cimmerians casualties were put at 2.46%. All Cimmerians leaders survived
    the battle. Impressing his peers was Shade of Mist, who once again has distinguished
    himself. He is now a Marshal. All the Cimmerians wizards survived the fray. The troops are
    anxious for more victories: morale is up!


14 troop brigades versus 14 troop brigades - one side ends up with 100% losses, and the other side ends up with 2.46% losses.

I expected to lose this battle. Better wizards and better troops in the Cimmerians' group, but talk about a real Alamaze interest-annihilator. Nothing against those that enjoy Alamaze, and there are certainly numerous things about Alamaze that I like, and I don't play to win so I don't really mind losing a battle or even a war, but the disparity in the kill ratios really strikes me as being way out of kilter. And I'm well aware that some of my troops were of the green experience variety.

But as I've played Alamaze in multiple games over the last several months, the sheer disparity in kill ratios, whether I win a given battle or whether I lose it, really stands out.

Giants invade the region of Stormgate

My intervention at Stormgate is only because the Elves are creating a Stormgard army with Mithril equipped weapons and armor. This would be a threat to all the free nations given the unique ability of the Elves with mithril weapons and armor, the ability to raise high level wizards and the fact they could recruit another 25 brigades leading to an overwhelming force for any free nation to face. 

This will no doubt be a difficult battle, but a good test to see how the Giants do against mithril equipped Elves and Stormgate guards.

Using the recent Giants versus Elven battle from Turn #24 in this game as an example which a kingdom played by me wasn't involved, let's see that finala battle paragraph:

    At this moment in the struggle, losses suffered by the 1st Elven had gone beyond the
    original threshold planned. As a withdrawal was attempted, the field commanders of the 1st
    Elven assigned the duties of relaying withdrawal commands were dismayed as the effects of
    the enemy's mesmerizing magic prevented their comrades from retreating as ordered. To
    their credit, the 1st Elven forces continued to fight as trained. Major General Gilgamesh
    saw that fortune was not with the Elven this day, and signalled the retreat. The Elven
    showed good composure in their withdrawal, minimizing losses. Elven casualties were put at
    100%. The group was destroyed! Giants casualties were put at 1.13%. All Giants leaders
    survived the battle. All the Giants wizards survived the fray. The troops are anxious for
    further glory: morale is up! For defeating the 1st Elven, the 3rd Giants has acquired
    Renowned Standard as spoils of war!


That doesn't really strike me as a difficult battle. Are there ever actually any difficult battles between opposing forces in Alamaze? I don't think that I've seen a single one, in all of the months that I have been playing. None that I can recall off the top of my head, anyway. Battles seem to always be very lopsided, even to the point of being utterly ridiculous.

Tons of supposedly rare warlords running around, super-powerful wizards every which way you look, and vast disparity in troop kills during battles. I realize that experience and choices made by respective players makes a difference, but that's just it - pair up newcomers to Alamaze against very experienced veterans of the game, and it will almost always end up with the various snowball effects ensuring that inexperienced players will fall prey to the disadvantages that inhere in such a system as this. The winner of battles tends to (though not always, especially for small battles) obtain morale and experience increases, which only further increase the size of the snowball effect going forward. Does anyone actually think that such enormous disparities in battle results do not, and will not, contribute to players dropping games of Alamaze?

Growing the size of the player base can be accomplished with sufficient effective advertising in the right places. But retaining players, when the Alamaze system is erected atop such gross disparities, will likely prove to be exceedingly difficult, I think. Blowouts galore! How do you sell that, effectively, to the gaming public at large? These kinds of gross battle disparities, which are the general rule (occurrence) and not the exception, undermine Alamaze's chances of success over the long term.

[VballMichael]

I have seen closer battles, for instance where both sides retreat with no clear winner after all battle phases and the losses are somewhat close. Your battle results do seem crazy.

[Strongwill]

That battle scenario above with the CI against the DE was a slaughter from the start. The CI troops consisting of elite/veteran/regular troops against a few regular weak troops and green troops. No contest. Those troop comparison without the experience of elite and veteran status are worth more than 2 to 1 just in combat ability, adding veteran and elite only boosts their strength by 100%. The difference in leaders bonus is also more than estimates 4 brigades just in % bonus. That battle was done before it started, and why it was destroyed? Tactical selection of determined attack let the weak troops stay in fight until almost all dead, had no chance in retreat phase. ? you probably already know this but I was just commenting to show the disparity of the battle.

[Glowamane1]

Battle between the 1st Cimmerians army group and the 3rd Demon Princes army group in the plains of area VX:
                                                  Cimmerians                                  Demon Princes

                                      Commanders
                    Warlord Korus                  Captain Major Zed the Impaler
                    Warlord Son of Krull            Centurion Hound of Hell
                    Commander Shade of Mist         

                                        Wizards
                        Power-5 Xorian              Power-3 Incubus
                        Power-4 Spellweaver        Power-2 Red Son of Dre
                                                   

                                        Brigades
                    4 Cimmerians Veteran          3 Demon Princes Regular
                    3 Mammoths Regular            3 Orcs Regular
                    1 Paladins Elite              2 Zamorans Regular
                    1 Paladins Veteran            6 Zamorans Green
                    2 Paladins Regular           
                    3 Wildlings Veteran         

                                      Combat Factors
                      Renowned Leaders              None

                                    Tactical Selection
                    Determined Attack              Determined Attack


    At this moment in the struggle, losses suffered by the 3rd Demon Princes had gone beyond
    the original threshold planned. As a withdrawal was attempted, the field commanders of the
    3rd Demon Princes assigned the duties of relaying withdrawal commands were dismayed as the
    effects of the enemy's mesmerizing magic prevented their comrades from retreating as
    ordered. To their credit, the 3rd Demon Princes forces continued to fight as trained. With
    higher than expected losses, Captain Major Zed the Impaler had no choice but to order the
    Demon Princes force to withdraw. The leaders of the Demon Princes force managed the
    retreat fairly well, all considered. Demon Princes casualties were put at 100%. The group
    was destroyed! Cimmerians casualties were put at 2.46%. All Cimmerians leaders survived
    the battle. Impressing his peers was Shade of Mist, who once again has distinguished
    himself. He is now a Marshal. All the Cimmerians wizards survived the fray. The troops are
    anxious for more victories: morale is up!


14 troop brigades versus 14 troop brigades - one side ends up with 100% losses, and the other side ends up with 2.46% losses.

I expected to lose this battle. Better wizards and better troops in the Cimmerians' group, but talk about a real Alamaze interest-annihilator. Nothing against those that enjoy Alamaze, and there are certainly numerous things about Alamaze that I like, and I don't play to win so I don't really mind losing a battle or even a war, but the disparity in the kill ratios really strikes me as being way out of kilter. And I'm well aware that some of my troops were of the green experience variety.

But as I've played Alamaze in multiple games over the last several months, the sheer disparity in kill ratios, whether I win a given battle or whether I lose it, really stands out.

Giants invade the region of Stormgate

My intervention at Stormgate is only because the Elves are creating a Stormgard army with Mithril equipped weapons and armor. This would be a threat to all the free nations given the unique ability of the Elves with mithril weapons and armor, the ability to raise high level wizards and the fact they could recruit another 25 brigades leading to an overwhelming force for any free nation to face. 

This will no doubt be a difficult battle, but a good test to see how the Giants do against mithril equipped Elves and Stormgate guards.

Using the recent Giants versus Elven battle from Turn #24 in this game as an example which a kingdom played by me wasn't involved, let's see that finala battle paragraph:

    At this moment in the struggle, losses suffered by the 1st Elven had gone beyond the
    original threshold planned. As a withdrawal was attempted, the field commanders of the 1st
    Elven assigned the duties of relaying withdrawal commands were dismayed as the effects of
    the enemy's mesmerizing magic prevented their comrades from retreating as ordered. To
    their credit, the 1st Elven forces continued to fight as trained. Major General Gilgamesh
    saw that fortune was not with the Elven this day, and signalled the retreat. The Elven
    showed good composure in their withdrawal, minimizing losses. Elven casualties were put at
    100%. The group was destroyed! Giants casualties were put at 1.13%. All Giants leaders
    survived the battle. All the Giants wizards survived the fray. The troops are anxious for
    further glory: morale is up! For defeating the 1st Elven, the 3rd Giants has acquired
    Renowned Standard as spoils of war!


That doesn't really strike me as a difficult battle. Are there ever actually any difficult battles between opposing forces in Alamaze? I don't think that I've seen a single one, in all of the months that I have been playing. None that I can recall off the top of my head, anyway. Battles seem to always be very lopsided, even to the point of being utterly ridiculous.

Tons of supposedly rare warlords running around, super-powerful wizards every which way you look, and vast disparity in troop kills during battles. I realize that experience and choices made by respective players makes a difference, but that's just it - pair up newcomers to Alamaze against very experienced veterans of the game, and it will almost always end up with the various snowball effects ensuring that inexperienced players will fall prey to the disadvantages that inhere in such a system as this. The winner of battles tends to (though not always, especially for small battles) obtain morale and experience increases, which only further increase the size of the snowball effect going forward. Does anyone actually think that such enormous disparities in battle results do not, and will not, contribute to players dropping games of Alamaze?

Growing the size of the player base can be accomplished with sufficient effective advertising in the right places. But retaining players, when the Alamaze system is erected atop such gross disparities, will likely prove to be exceedingly difficult, I think. Blowouts galore! How do you sell that, effectively, to the gaming public at large? These kinds of gross battle disparities, which are the general rule (occurrence) and not the exception, undermine Alamaze's chances of success over the long term.

Elite troops make a huge difference. I had expected to win the battle below as the Elementalist, but the better morale and Elite troops of the Death Knights won the day. I would say the biggest problem for new players is the 10 type of troops limit, as they will often get a range of different troops types in there army to see what works to then find out they wont level up due to the 10 troop type limit.

Elementalist                                Deathknights

                                        Commanders
                    Warlord Hjorr Wisebrundy        Warlord Aknox Oltus
                    Grand Marshal Ogner            Warlord Rikkol Cyar
                    Major General Bruno Blackbeer  Marshal Zrat Aglub [*Stunned*]

                                        Wizards
                        Power-11 Alvir Beckingham  Power-9 Okler Szop
                        Power-10 Piers Merton      Power-4 Cyibjuc
                        Power-9 Froedrik Chaincut  Power-4 Laarmoq

                                        Brigades
                    2 Shambling Mounds Veteran    5 Deathknights Elite
                    1 Iron Golem Veteran          1 Deathknights Veteran
                    2 Gelatinous Cubes Veteran    2 Pit Fiend Elite
                    1 Gelatinous Cubes Regular    1 Iron Golem Veteran
                    3 Air Elementals Veteran      2 Trolls Elite
                    4 Earth Elementals Veteran    1 Trolls Veteran
                    1 Air Elementals Regular      2 Hell Hounds Elite
                    2 Fire Elementals Regular   

                                      Combat Factors
                          Forged Armor              Forged Armor
                      Forged Weaponry              Forged Weaponry
                      Renowned Leaders              Renowned Leaders
                                                    Grand Morale
                                                    Light Attrition

                                    Tactical Selection
                    Determined Attack              Determined Attack
     
     
    The colossus 1st Deathknights Iron Golem breathed poisonous gas upon their enemy,
    disheartening their morale. The 1st Elementalist morale was boosted due to the presence of
    Air Elementals in plains terrain. The 1st Elementalist morale was boosted due to the
    display of Fire Elementals and their fiery attack. Due to the ruthless nature of the
    Deathknights, the Elementalist forces became weakened as they succumbed to their fear. The
    colossus 1st Elementalist Iron Golem breathed poisonous gas upon their enemy,
    disheartening their morale. A powerful dispel effect of arcane disjunction nature spread
    throughout the battlefield causing disruptions among magical artifacts and equipped gear
    to malfunction for both forces. In the first hour of morning, the 1st Elementalist army
    group advanced upon the advancing lines of the 1st Deathknights army group commanded by
    Warlord Aknox Oltus. The 1st Elementalist group proudly led the Elementalists. Across the
    field, the Elementalist's forces saw the banner of the Deathknights 1st group, it's most
    respected. As the attackers swept over the flat grasslands, the battle began.

                                  - Long Range Missilers -

    The erratic whipping winds from a magical storm reduced missile damage on both sides. The
    presense of an Air Elemental has reduced missile damage from the opposing side. Long range
    missilers from both sides joined the fray and fired their arrows. The Elementalist lines
    dealt out minor losses upon the Deathknights forces while the Deathknights dealt out light
    damage to their enemy.

                                  - Short Range Missilers -

    The erratic whipping winds from a magical storm reduced missile damage on both sides. The
    presense of an Air Elemental has reduced missile damage from the opposing side. Short
    range missilers from both sides joined the fray and fired their arrows. The Elementalist
    forces dealt out light damage upon the Deathknights lines as the Deathknights dealt out
    light losses to their enemy.

                                        - Magic -

    Elementalist wizards dismounted scarcely past where the defensive missiles were falling
    and began an elaborate incantation. Alvir Beckingham's presence was evident. Earth tremors
    shot forth from his position. Power-11 wizard Alvir Beckingham incanted in a low forceful
    tone. A faintly visible blue shimmering began to surround the troops and noticeably
    lessened the effectiveness of the arrows of the defenders. Piers Merton likewise had his
    presence be seen in like fashion. Power-10 wizard Piers Merton threw back his hood and
    gestured in an animated fashion. He sought through his magic to stun Warlord Aknox Oltus,
    but was unable to do so. A form of defensive magic protected the target from harm.
    Power-10 wizard Piers Merton while seemingly detached from all else, seemed to draw within
    himself and began to incant. He sought through his magic to stun Warlord Rikkol Cyar, but
    was unable to do so. A form of defensive magic protected the target from harm. Marshal
    Zrat Aglub is stunned and cannot move! Froedrik Chaincut also let his presence be seen in
    similar manner. Power-9 wizard Froedrik Chaincut while seemingly detached from all else,
    seemed to draw within himself and began to incant. Invoked a powerful arcane disjunction
    that caused widespread malfunction of all magical artifacts and equipped gear for both
    forces on the battlefield. Deathknights wizards dismounted barely past where the defensive
    missiles were falling and began an elaborate spell. Calling forth his arcane power Okler
    Szop's presence wizard force impacted the course of the battle. Blinding light shot forth
    from the wizard. Cyibjuc also had his presence be known in like fashion. Power-4 Wizard
    Cyibjuc muttered a few words in a foreign tongue. He then created a powerful warding,
    which would protect the heroes and wizards of his force from the black magics of any
    opposing spellcasters. Laarmoq likewise let his presence be known in similar manner.
    Power-4 wizard Laarmoq while seemingly detached from all else, seemed to draw within
    himself and began to incant. Looked upon the heavens and gestured violently. Suddenly
    winds of gale force drove across the battlefield, reducing the accuracy of enemy missiles
    by about half, but also reducing the accuracy of our own missile troops. Coming forth are
    a pack of Hell Hounds aiding the 1st Deathknights, breathing intense fire through the
    enemy, and reeking havoc. Stepping forward is a mighty Pit Fiend aiding the 1st
    Deathknights, whose demonic immolation causes intense fire to burn the enemy. The
    Elementalist lines imposed minor damage upon the Deathknights lines and, in return, the
    Deathknights claimed light damage against the enemy.

                                        - Charge -

    The outcome of the battle was still very much in doubt. The chargers from both sides
    charged ahead and clashed upon the battlefield. The Elementalist ranks dealt out light
    losses upon the Deathknights forces in response, the Deathknights imposed minor casualties
    to their foes.

                                        - Melee -

    Hour after hour passed, yet none could tell which side would first break and which would
    triumph. The footmen of each force now were prepared to settle the engagement, grim
    determination on the face of each soldier, they met in heated, blood-stained battle. The
    Elementalist melee advanced forward to meet the Deathknights footmen in close quarters.
    The Elementalist forces caused minor damage upon the Deathknights ranks as the
    Deathknights claimed light damage to their enemy.

                                      - Combined -

    Hour after hour passed, yet none could tell which side would be the victor since both
    forces were evenly matched. Despite all that had preceeded at this moment, the battle
    outcome was still in doubt. Now all remaining troops of all types hurled themselves into
    the thick of battle to settle matters in decisive fashion. Victory had yet to take sides
    in this epic struggle: Yet more hour killing hours passed, and these saw all the weary
    lines of each side rejoin the contest in a final, gallant effort to triumph. The
    Elementalist combined might defied the Deathknights combined might for the final battle.
    The Elementalist forces inflicted minor casualties upon the Deathknights forces and, in
    return, the Deathknights inflicted light losses against the enemy.

                                      - Conclusion -

    Forces on both sides of the battlefield were exhausted and left the battle without either
    side withdrawing. Elementalist casualties were put at 24.59%. All Elementalist leaders
    survived the battle. All the Elementalist wizards survived the fray. Due to experience,
    victory and valor, a Veteran Earth Elementals brigade has been recognized as Elite! Due to
    experience, victory and valor, a Veteran Earth Elementals brigade has been recognized as
    Elite! An Air Elementals unit earned promotion to Veteran status. An Fire Elementals
    brigade of Regular experience battled bravely and have been elevated to Veteran status.
    The toll of battle has lowered the group's morale. Deathknights casualties were put at
    19.21%. All Deathknights leaders survived the battle. All the Deathknights wizards
    survived the fray. Due to experience, victory and valor, a Veteran Iron Golem brigade has
    been recognized as Elite! Due to experience, victory and valor, a Veteran Trolls brigade
    has been recognized as Elite! The convincing completeness of the force's victory has
    greatly increased morale.

[unclemike]

Hi all. I haven't posted on the forum in a while, been busy, but trying to get back into Alamaze for the upcoming update in January 2024.

One of the proposed changes that I offered to the new owner is to tone down the bonuses that brigade experience provides, especially Elite troops. They get an enormous bonus that offsets the balance of the game. More on the proposed changes in a bit...

Maximus, regarding your battle, you shouldn't compare strict numbers like 14 brigades vs. 14 brigades and expect an even-keeled battle. Alamaze is much more sophisticated than that.

Others responded that the Elite troops were the main factor, but actually, I would say it was the troop quality (e.g, stats) along with the fact that the opposing group had much higher leaders. Two Warlords and a Commander provides +62%, not only to base combat value but also defense ratings (which means their group will take less damage each combat phase). So, a group combat value of 100,000 + 62% = 162,000 strong. That's a pretty big bonus don't you think?

An even bigger factor are the troop quality stats and ratings. Your Demon Prince group had lousy Orcs and Zamorans. Think of your grandmother going to battle for you. Now look at the battle-intensive Cimmerian force: 4 Cimmerian barbarian brutes, 3 mighty Mammoths (who alone could probably beat the crap out of your group), 4 armored Paladins (1 of which is Elite), etc.

And I'm not even going to mention the wizard spell difference (pwr-5,4 vs pwr-3,2) which could easily decide this battle...

So, it's not just about comparing 14 brigades vs. 14 brigades. If you want something simplistic like that then I suggest to play another game. Alamaze is much more sophisticated than that and players need to consider the strategic importance of their actiions (e.g,. troop types and quality, wizard spell selection, advance their leaders, etc.).

[Strongwill]

Nice to see you post again UM.

[Zar@shand]

Zar@shand Wrote:
Giants invade the region of Stormgate

My intervention at Stormgate is only because the Elves are creating a Stormgard army with Mithril equipped weapons and armor. This would be a threat to all the free nations given the unique ability of the Elves with mithril weapons and armor, the ability to raise high level wizards and the fact they could recruit another 25 brigades leading to an overwhelming force for any free nation to face.

This will no doubt be a difficult battle, but a good test to see how the Giants do against mithril equipped Elves and Stormgate guards.


Using the recent Giants versus Elven battle from Turn #24 in this game as an example which a kingdom played by me wasn't involved, let's see that finala battle paragraph:

    At this moment in the struggle, losses suffered by the 1st Elven had gone beyond the
    original threshold planned. As a withdrawal was attempted, the field commanders of the 1st
    Elven assigned the duties of relaying withdrawal commands were dismayed as the effects of
    the enemy's mesmerizing magic prevented their comrades from retreating as ordered. To
    their credit, the 1st Elven forces continued to fight as trained. Major General Gilgamesh
    saw that fortune was not with the Elven this day, and signalled the retreat. The Elven
    showed good composure in their withdrawal, minimizing losses. Elven casualties were put at
    100%. The group was destroyed! Giants casualties were put at 1.13%. All Giants leaders
    survived the battle. All the Giants wizards survived the fray. The troops are anxious for
    further glory: morale is up! For defeating the 1st Elven, the 3rd Giants has acquired
    Renowned Standard as spoils of war!

The actual battle I was referring to happened on turn 23 and the Giants did perform better than I expected, but it wasn't the walkover battle that you used as an example. The reasons for winning that battle are much as Uncle Mike has mentioned, I had better commanders, wizards, artifacts and better and more troops. In that battle I took around 10% damage to the Elves 60%. The Elves hadn't actually combined all of their best commanders, wizards, artifacts and troops. If they had it would have been a closer battle.

[Maximus Dominus]

Hi all. I haven't posted on the forum in a while, been busy, but trying to get back into Alamaze for the upcoming update in January 2024.

One of the proposed changes that I offered to the new owner is to tone down the bonuses that brigade experience provides, especially Elite troops. They get an enormous bonus that offsets the balance of the game. More on the proposed changes in a bit...

Maximus, regarding your battle, you shouldn't compare strict numbers like 14 brigades vs. 14 brigades and expect an even-keeled battle. Alamaze is much more sophisticated than that.

Others responded that the Elite troops were the main factor, but actually, I would say it was the troop quality (e.g, stats) along with the fact that the opposing group had much higher leaders. Two Warlords and a Commander provides +62%, not only to base combat value but also defense ratings (which means their group will take less damage each combat phase). So, a group combat value of 100,000 + 62% = 162,000 strong. That's a pretty big bonus don't you think?

An even bigger factor are the troop quality stats and ratings. Your Demon Prince group had lousy Orcs and Zamorans. Think of your grandmother going to battle for you. Now look at the battle-intensive Cimmerian force: 4 Cimmerian barbarian brutes, 3 mighty Mammoths (who alone could probably beat the crap out of your group), 4 armored Paladins (1 of which is Elite), etc.

And I'm not even going to mention the wizard spell difference (pwr-5,4 vs pwr-3,2) which could easily decide this battle...

So, it's not just about comparing 14 brigades vs. 14 brigades. If you want something simplistic like that then I suggest to play another game. Alamaze is much more sophisticated than that and players need to consider the strategic importance of their actiions (e.g,. troop types and quality, wizard spell selection, advance their leaders, etc.).

I don't just compare 14 vs 14 troop brigades, and I don't just look at one or two battles.

Saying Alamaze is "much more sophisticated than that" doesn't actually address any of Alamaze's numerous shortcomings. Your verbal jousting with wordplay is no more effective - nor persuasive - when you do it, than when Rick used to do it to try and deflect from a variety of different shortcomings that players would voice to him.

As far as wizards go, wizards, themselves, are way overpowered in Alamaze. Alamaze certainly has complexity in its overall design, but complexity doesn't mean that the game is balanced, or that it's not infested with numerous different overpowered aspects. Warlords, as has previously been pointed out, are anything but rare, in spite of what the rulebook alludes to. They're as common as dandelions.

I will certainly concede that a 62% bonus is a pretty big bonus. Of course, the original numbers behind the bonuses were picked out of the air. It's not as though there is some actual science to them. It all underscores what I have said before, which is that Alamaze isn't designed for new players.

While I do appreciate your encouragement that, if I want something simplistic, you suggest that I play another game. Except that I didn't return to Alamaze, because I wanted to play a simple game or a complex game, but rather to try and assist John in helping to improve Alamaze. And ignoring the problems that exist within Alamaze's design by turning a blind eye to them, or just sugar-coating them with colorful words like "sophisticated,' won't actually improve the game nor improve its chances of gaining or retaining new players. It's not as though Alamaze only has one or two things wrong with it, Mike. Even with all of my own criticisms about the game aside, there's been a lot of complaints voiced by experienced players over time about various aspects of the game's design.

I've played a good bit of Alamaze over the last several months, over the last half-year or so, and in that span of time, just playing the game and experimenting with it, more and more things have stood out as being in need of revision. John, of course, can revise whatever he wants to, and retain whatever he wants to, but from what I have seen, experience in Alamaze is such a force-multiplier, in terms of how the game plays out where new players seek to compete against veterans of the game, that new guys really don't have much of a chance, at all, on average. Do you expect to grow the player base and retain a sizeable portion of new players, by fielding a game which is so uncompetitive by virtue of experience differences? Good luck with that, because even if newcomers learn to play the game, you're highly unlikely to retain them with the way that the game's mechanics are structured.

With regard to playing other games, I've actually begun to allow my games of Alamaze to wind down. I was playing in 7 games of Alamaze at one time, not so very long ago, and now I'm down to just 2. Simultaneously, I've been fiddling around with Galac-Tac intermittently over the last several weeks, and I recently joined TribeNet. It's been interesting observing how PBM games set in three different settings (fantasy, space, and tribal) share some of the exact, same problems, particularly in their chosen approaches to documentation and presentation of information. None of the three have new players as the forefront of their respective approaches.

I would only be in one game of Alamaze, right now, but Matthew talked me into joining another one a bit back. At the current moment, I don't have any plans to join any more games of Alamaze, though who knows with 100% certainty what the future holds.

[Croaker]

Hi all. I haven't posted on the forum in a while, been busy, but trying to get back into Alamaze for the upcoming update in January 2024.

One of the proposed changes that I offered to the new owner is to tone down the bonuses that brigade experience provides, especially Elite troops. They get an enormous bonus that offsets the balance of the game. More on the proposed changes in a bit...

Maximus, regarding your battle, you shouldn't compare strict numbers like 14 brigades vs. 14 brigades and expect an even-keeled battle. Alamaze is much more sophisticated than that.

Others responded that the Elite troops were the main factor, but actually, I would say it was the troop quality (e.g, stats) along with the fact that the opposing group had much higher leaders. Two Warlords and a Commander provides +62%, not only to base combat value but also defense ratings (which means their group will take less damage each combat phase). So, a group combat value of 100,000 + 62% = 162,000 strong. That's a pretty big bonus don't you think?

An even bigger factor are the troop quality stats and ratings. Your Demon Prince group had lousy Orcs and Zamorans. Think of your grandmother going to battle for you. Now look at the battle-intensive Cimmerian force: 4 Cimmerian barbarian brutes, 3 mighty Mammoths (who alone could probably beat the crap out of your group), 4 armored Paladins (1 of which is Elite), etc.

And I'm not even going to mention the wizard spell difference (pwr-5,4 vs pwr-3,2) which could easily decide this battle...

So, it's not just about comparing 14 brigades vs. 14 brigades. If you want something simplistic like that then I suggest to play another game. Alamaze is much more sophisticated than that and players need to consider the strategic importance of their actiions (e.g,. troop types and quality, wizard spell selection, advance their leaders, etc.).

I don't just compare 14 vs 14 troop brigades, and I don't just look at one or two battles.

Saying Alamaze is "much more sophisticated than that" doesn't actually address any of Alamaze's numerous shortcomings. Your verbal jousting with wordplay is no more effective - nor persuasive - when you do it, than when Rick used to do it to try and deflect from a variety of different shortcomings that players would voice to him.

As far as wizards go, wizards, themselves, are way overpowered in Alamaze. Alamaze certainly has complexity in its overall design, but complexity doesn't mean that the game is balanced, or that it's not infested with numerous different overpowered aspects. Warlords, as has previously been pointed out, are anything but rare, in spite of what the rulebook alludes to. They're as common as dandelions.

I will certainly concede that a 62% bonus is a pretty big bonus. Of course, the original numbers behind the bonuses were picked out of the air. It's not as though there is some actual science to them. It all underscores what I have said before, which is that Alamaze isn't designed for new players.

While I do appreciate your encouragement that, if I want something simplistic, you suggest that I play another game. Except that I didn't return to Alamaze, because I wanted to play a simple game or a complex game, but rather to try and assist John in helping to improve Alamaze. And ignoring the problems that exist within Alamaze's design by turning a blind eye to them, or just sugar-coating them with colorful words like "sophisticated,' won't actually improve the game nor improve its chances of gaining or retaining new players. It's not as though Alamaze only has one or two things wrong with it, Mike. Even with all of my own criticisms about the game aside, there's been a lot of complaints voiced by experienced players over time about various aspects of the game's design.

I've played a good bit of Alamaze over the last several months, over the last half-year or so, and in that span of time, just playing the game and experimenting with it, more and more things have stood out as being in need of revision. John, of course, can revise whatever he wants to, and retain whatever he wants to, but from what I have seen, experience in Alamaze is such a force-multiplier, in terms of how the game plays out where new players seek to compete against veterans of the game, that new guys really don't have much of a chance, at all, on average. Do you expect to grow the player base and retain a sizeable portion of new players, by fielding a game which is so uncompetitive by virtue of experience differences? Good luck with that, because even if newcomers learn to play the game, you're highly unlikely to retain them with the way that the game's mechanics are structured.

With regard to playing other games, I've actually begun to allow my games of Alamaze to wind down. I was playing in 7 games of Alamaze at one time, not so very long ago, and now I'm down to just 2. Simultaneously, I've been fiddling around with Galac-Tac intermittently over the last several weeks, and I recently joined TribeNet. It's been interesting observing how PBM games set in three different settings (fantasy, space, and tribal) share some of the exact, same problems, particularly in their chosen approaches to documentation and presentation of information. None of the three have new players as the forefront of their respective approaches.

I would only be in one game of Alamaze, right now, but Matthew talked me into joining another one a bit back. At the current moment, I don't have any plans to join any more games of Alamaze, though who knows with 100% certainty what the future holds.

Thanks for an enjoyable game.