Hidden Capitals (Easy To Locate)

[Pine Needle]

About the suggestion to only allow movement to previously discovered pc's probably won't work because in some games, you may want to swap pc's with another player as a trade. So, that pc location is only discussed on the forum. Also, in team games, moving to an ally pc that you didn't recon/divine first is normal right?

About sleeping/warding prisoners, wasn't that about making it easier/difficult to bribe the prisoner? I remember reading something about that.

I say, since most people frown on the idea of moving figures to empty map areas, just reenable the code that UM did that has a percentage chance of being eaten by animals in the wild. That happened to me when trying to move my mithril miners to another location. I lost some miners which was pretty funny in a way because it adds some realism to the game. As if the rest of the map was alive in a sense while you're ruling your kingdom. So, I kind of like that aspect of being at risk in certain circumstances when moving on the map.

About the other comment on the rulebook being lousy because high priestesses couldn't cast revelation, a forum post said that the programmer ran out of time to implement the idea. So, I wouldn't really rag about the rulebook about being untrustworthy. Brekk just has to make the minor correction to the rulebook that's all. As a newer player, I think the rulebook is very helpful towards understanding the game and what to do in it with its suggestions on gameplay.

I did not say the rulebook was lousy; I have a lot of respect for the amount of love and work that went into this game and the massive rulebook that I use every turn as I learn how to play.  I was responding to the assertion above that moving emissaries or agents to empty squares was _unethical_ because it wasn't specifically called out as a tactic in the rulebook, and saying that the presence of the High Priestess / Revelation blurb invalidates that, in my opinion.

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I see this is still a contentious point. Shouldn’t be, the randomizer on population generation at the start of a game can already narrow down the general areas a hidden population could be.

Look through old turns and you’ll see that hidden or non hidden locations populate, in general, around previous pop locations. T4 use a HP for pop divination for towns(capitals hidden or not) and figure the rest by appropriate lvl agent on recon. Almost the same amount of turns as using the send out Emmy/agrnt hack. Just saying. Doesn’t always work, but does work more than not.

Where would I find these old turns if I'm a new player?

I'll send you all the old turns you want. I have never done what Strongwill proposes, though, so I don't know if its correct.

Pine, you have played kingdoms that used the same region before, didn’t the pops look kinda about the same location, but maybe a name change on it, or the capital was in a different one, or a village where a town was last time? Maybe not 100% but close enough to guestamate where to look with highe lvl recon?

I never have- but I'll look now!

[Strongwill]

About the suggestion to only allow movement to previously discovered pc's probably won't work because in some games, you may want to swap pc's with another player as a trade. So, that pc location is only discussed on the forum. Also, in team games, moving to an ally pc that you didn't recon/divine first is normal right?

About sleeping/warding prisoners, wasn't that about making it easier/difficult to bribe the prisoner? I remember reading something about that.

I say, since most people frown on the idea of moving figures to empty map areas, just reenable the code that UM did that has a percentage chance of being eaten by animals in the wild. That happened to me when trying to move my mithril miners to another location. I lost some miners which was pretty funny in a way because it adds some realism to the game. As if the rest of the map was alive in a sense while you're ruling your kingdom. So, I kind of like that aspect of being at risk in certain circumstances when moving on the map.

About the other comment on the rulebook being lousy because high priestesses couldn't cast revelation, a forum post said that the programmer ran out of time to implement the idea. So, I wouldn't really rag about the rulebook about being untrustworthy. Brekk just has to make the minor correction to the rulebook that's all. As a newer player, I think the rulebook is very helpful towards understanding the game and what to do in it with its suggestions on gameplay.

I did not say the rulebook was lousy; I have a lot of respect for the amount of love and work that went into this game and the massive rulebook that I use every turn as I learn how to play.  I was responding to the assertion above that moving emissaries or agents to empty squares was _unethical_ because it wasn't specifically called out as a tactic in the rulebook, and saying that the presence of the High Priestess / Revelation blurb invalidates that, in my opinion.

---

I see this is still a contentious point. Shouldn’t be, the randomizer on population generation at the start of a game can already narrow down the general areas a hidden population could be.

Look through old turns and you’ll see that hidden or non hidden locations populate, in general, around previous pop locations. T4 use a HP for pop divination for towns(capitals hidden or not) and figure the rest by appropriate lvl agent on recon. Almost the same amount of turns as using the send out Emmy/agrnt hack. Just saying. Doesn’t always work, but does work more than not.

Where would I find these old turns if I'm a new player?

I'll send you all the old turns you want. I have never done what Strongwill proposes, though, so I don't know if its correct.

Pine, you have played kingdoms that used the same region before, didn’t the pops look kinda about the same location, but maybe a name change on it, or the capital was in a different one, or a village where a town was last time? Maybe not 100% but close enough to guestamate where to look with highe lvl recon?

I never have- but I'll look now!

Let me know what u find

[Brekk]

You can ward a prisoner to determine if the capital the emissary is in is within the 10 range or not. Is this also frowned upon? It seems pretty odd I can ward a prisoner. I used this to narrow down a hidden capital to within eight possible squares; less once I learned where the non-hidden PCs were.

I don't think this is bad form at all. This is brilliant- and a reason to execute prisoners. I recently captured an immortal and was sweating profusely until it escaped.

I think it is bad form to move agent or emi to locations trying to find hidden capital purely because that is not how the rules are written you are circumventing the intent of the rules. yes its a programming issue. I refuse to do it and I have seen certain players use it a lot. I have dropped a couple games when I saw the other person doing it. To me its about ethics. The rules states you need to have a level 4 agent to find it. using a level 1 by moving it and getting lucky at a low cost and cheap way to do it bends the rules. Its just plain wrong. you should of had to invest in the orders and costs to get agent up too 4 thus you are circumventing rules and gain an advantage to those who wont bend the rules and use this method so its just plain wrong to me. Also gives kingdom with high agent costs a cheap way to find things. thats just plain wrong. finding loopholes in the game and taking advantage of it vs what is said in the rules is unethical to me. you can disagree but thats just what it is cheating that is allowed.

The whole moving agents has been around since I started playing. I have heard in the past that agents or emissaries had a decent chance to die. Wouldn't it be funny if I find it

[Ruingurth]

Hiya,

One change I would like to see implemented is when you build a legendary Castle the hex is revealed IE: A Legendary Castle has been built in the Crown Islands in hex DD. So anyone building the Legendary on a hidden pop reveals it.

Ruingruth
Two Time Alamaze Champion
Sleeping Dragon

[uncledarkseid]

Hiya,

One change I would like to see implemented is when you build a legendary Castle the hex is revealed IE: A Legendary Castle has been built in the Crown Islands in hex DD. So anyone building the Legendary on a hidden pop reveals it.

Ruingruth
Two Time Alamaze Champion
Sleeping Dragon

I like that alot!  Cant be a legend in secret

[DuPont]

Hey, I just discovered a vulnerability with hidden pc's.

To discover them, you don't need a level 4+ agent doing a single map area recon. Or anything else that's special like the True Seeing or Revelations spell.

I was able to locate a hidden pc simply by moving a level 1 agent to a blind map area! I recruited a bunch of level 1 agents and moved them to empty map locations in enemy territory that is not occupied by a pc or encounter. Eventually, one of my level 1 agents moved to the other kingdom's hidden pc without knowing about it beforehand.

Back in the old days, DuPont (I think his real name was Dave Patterson) used to move a bunch of emissaries to undiscovered map locations early in the game (like turns 1-3) in addition to moving groups to find pc's that much faster. At a time, the game software would say that your emissary could be eaten by a wild animal or something (I don't remember the text or what the percentage chance of being killed), but I haven't encountered that so far with moving agents.

I thought about using low-level emissaries like DuPont to find hidden pc's, but they're more expensive than hiring a level 1 agent and there's a percentage chance that they'll alert the other kingdom of the emissary's relocation. So, I used a bunch of level 1 agents that won't alert the other kingdom and it worked!

Also, by moving the emissary/agent rather than recon the area, any counter-agents won't detect or prevent your action. Counteragents may block and kill your level 4 agent recon, but the counterespionage action has no effect on moving an emissary/agent to the location.

How cool is that!

I object! First of all, my Christian name is Victor, not Dave. More to the point, I didn't discover this tactic and I steadfastly refused to use it as I considered it very bad form! Just wanted to keep my good name.

[Clueless]

I object! First of all, my Christian name is Victor, not Dave. More to the point, I didn't discover this tactic and I steadfastly refused to use it as I considered it very bad form! Just wanted to keep my good name.

Very well then, I'd say this sad and Clueless ruler needs a thorough beating in a game! Glad you're back. Hope to see you in a game.

[Brekk]

A quick follow-up on this, Mike has now told me how to fix it, so beware! That said, it’s not at the top of my list right now because I haven’t recompiled code before.