Game 5684

[Jon Deaux]

Bumping the previous message, below, since I didn't see a response to them, already.

QUESTION: When the Underworld issues order #994 - Set Agent Training Cost, do I have to issue it in increments over multiple turns, to raise it from, say, the starting 5,000 gold cost per agent that trains, up to 8,000 gold, the maximum allowed?

It used to have to be issued in increments, but last game I noticed that I did it right to the max in one shot.  I had forgotten it had to be increments, so I am guessing the increments are gone.

QUESTION: When raising the cost to train agents, if I were to raise it to 8,000 gold, does it then cost the Underworld 8,000 gold, also, to train agents from then on out?

Your agents are also subject to the universal agent training rate.  There are traits many kingdoms have that lower the cost from the base.  

QUESTION: Even if the Underworld changes the cost of training agents to 2,000 gold, does the Underworld still receive the same 1,500 from other kingdoms per agent trained, whether the cost of training agents is set at 2,000 gold or 8,000 gold?

You used to get a percentage of the training cost, more motivation to raise rates... but now you get the 1500 regardless of the cost.

[Maximus Dominus]

QUESTION: Leaders (which are Warlord, Lord Commander, Grand Marshal, Marshal, Commander, Major General, General, Captain Major, Captain, and Centurion) can not increase their level via any kind of training order, correct?

The 4th Cycle rulebook, on Page #78, states:

Leaders advance in level by gaining experience from participating in combat, either against another group, a popcenter, or battling a guardian from an unusual encounter.

Thus, it is only via combat that Leaders have any chance or way of advancing their levels, right?

[Maximus Dominus]

QUESTION: When the Underworld issues order #994 - Set Agent Training Cost, do I have to issue it in increments over multiple turns, to raise it from, say, the starting 5,000 gold cost per agent that trains, up to 8,000 gold, the maximum allowed?

It used to have to be issued in increments, but last game I noticed that I did it right to the max in one shot.  I had forgotten it had to be increments, so I am guessing the increments are gone.

Can I get another player to confirm that the #994 - Set Agent Training Cost order can be used to increase the training cost of agents multiple levels in one turn, or does it have to be accomplished incrementally, one level at a time?

Confirmation is better than wasting orders, hence why I seek confirmation.
The 4th Cycle rulebook states:

Set Global Agent Training Cost (Order #994). As the Underworld sponsors the training of agents throughout the realm, they may set the price of the training for all kingdoms, which may range from 2,000 gold to 8,000 gold. The initial price of training is 5,000 gold. The Underworld may vary the required amount for everyone within the range by issuing this special order. Enter the new price that will be required for all kingdoms to pay for their agent training, plus or minus 1,000 gold from the current cost. If it does not have to be raised or lowered incrementally, then why does the rulebook include the " plus or minus 1,000 gold from the current cost portion?

Maybe I simply read the rules wrong, or misunderstood to a brain freeze moment, but that "from the current cost" portion is what  led me, last turn (Turn #4) to believe that I had to change the cost incrementally, meaning one level up or down per turn, rather than change it from one extreme to the other in a single turn.

I don't doubt Jon Deaux on this matter, per se, but because wasted turn orders are to the detriment of my kingdom and facilitates a player getting behind by virtue of orders wasted/squandered, I just prefer the assurance of a confirmation of what the actual case is by another player - a second opinion, so to speak.

[Strongwill]

Agent training cost: I looked at my saved T4 from game just completed. I changed it from 5000 gold starting level to 2000 gold on first turn (turn4) available to alter it. Hope that helps

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Max if you would like my turns emailed to you I would gladly do it if you post me an email. It will be later when I get to my computer.

[Maximus Dominus]

Agent training cost: I looked at my saved T4 from game just completed. I changed it from 5000 gold starting level to 2000 gold on first turn (turn4) available to alter it. Hope that helps

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Max if you would like my turns emailed to you I would gladly do it if you post me an email. It will be later when I get to my computer.

No, I'm good. I appreciate the confirmation, PTRILEY. I thank you for the offer, though.

[Maximus Dominus]

QUESTION: I will be trying to build a Thieves Guild in the coming turn (Turn #5). If I try to train a Level 9 Agent in the same turn, to raise him to Level 10, the order will fail, correct?

#500 – Train To Higher Level
#611 – Construct Building

Because training the agent to a higher level is a #500 order, and the Construct Building (Thieves Guild) is a #611 order, the game would try to do the training, before the Thieves Guild actually got constructed, yielding a failed order for the attempt to train the agent (which would be a Standing Order). Correct?

[Maximus Dominus]

QUESTION: The #350 – Move Emissary order also seems to double as the #350 - Move Agent order. Do both emissaries and agents have to end their movement in pop centers during their movement, or can agents move to any hex (does that include land or water?), whether it has a pop center in it or not?

QUESTION: When issuing a #350 order to move an agent or an emissary, does the 7 areas maximum limit for movement of these character types include moving them diagonally?

The reason why I ask is because The Movement section on Page #73 of the rulebook states (for Groups):
Groups can move vertically, horizontally, or diagonally on the map.

#710 – Sea Movement on Page #224 states:
Groups may move vertically, horizontally, or diagonally across the sea.

#715 – Sea Movement (PC Search) on Page #224 states:
Groups may move vertically, horizontally, or diagonally on the seas.

#720 – Land Movement on Page #224 states:
Groups may move vertically, horizontally, or diagonally on the map.

#725 – Land Movement (PC Search) on Page ##224 states:
Groups may move vertically, horizontally, or diagonally on the map.

I did not see where the rulebook actually says that emissaries and agents can move diagonally. If it does, on what page of the rulebook does it say that?

[Strongwill]

QUESTION: I will be trying to build a Thieves Guild in the coming turn (Turn #5). If I try to train a Level 9 Agent in the same turn, to raise him to Level 10, the order will fail, correct?

#500 – Train To Higher Level
#611 – Construct Building

Because training the agent to a higher level is a #500 order, and the Construct Building (Thieves Guild) is a #611 order, the game would try to do the training, before the Thieves Guild actually got constructed, yielding a failed order for the attempt to train the agent (which would be a Standing Order). Correct?

Correct

[Maximus Dominus]

Fiddling with my turn orders for Turn #5 as the Underworld kingdom, I see that I succeeded at raising the training cost of agents to 6,000 gold, now, from 5,000 the previous turn (which was also the starting amount). I received the following message on my turn results for Turn #4.


Training Cost          The Underworld has announced a change in the cost of training agents.
                                   Until further notice, the cost of training an agent is now 6,000 gold.

Then, I decided to do some experimenting. The Alamaze Online Order System will let me change the training costs for new agents to any other amount, except for 2,000 gold. The system issues an error message, when I try to set it at 2,000 gold and click the Save Orders button to save my orders, but when I click the Verify Orders button, the error message below appears.


ERROR MESSAGES:
ORDER #994: INVALID COLUMN A VALUE [INVALID AMOUNT, MUST BE IN MULTIPLES OF 1000 (NO COMMAS) WITH FINAL AGENT TRAINING COST WITHIN RANGE OF 2000-8000] (994 2000)


Adjusted Agent Training Cost (Starting Next Turn, Cost Will Be 8,000 Gold)

Adjusted Agent Training Cost (Starting Next Turn, Cost Will Be 7,000 Gold)

Adjusted Agent Training Cost (Starting Next Turn, Cost Will Be 6,000 Gold) (even though it is set at 6,000 gold, currently)

Adjusted Agent Training Cost (Starting Next Turn, Cost Will Be 5,000 Gold)

Adjusted Agent Training Cost (Starting Next Turn, Cost Will Be 4,000 Gold)

Adjusted Agent Training Cost (Starting Next Turn, Cost Will Be 3,000 Gold)


QUESTION: Is this a bug?

[Strongwill]

QUESTION: The #350 – Move Emissary order also seems to double as the #350 - Move Agent order. Do both emissaries and agents have to end their movement in pop centers during their movement, or can agents move to any hex (does that include land or water?), whether it has a pop center in it or not?
Yes

QUESTION: When issuing a #350 order to move an agent or an emissary, does the 7 areas maximum limit for movement of these character types include moving them diagonally?
Yes, and movement points can be altered due to artifacts.

The reason why I ask is because The Movement section on Page #73 of the rulebook states (for Groups):
Groups can move vertically, horizontally, or diagonally on the map.
Yes

#710 – Sea Movement on Page #224 states:
Groups may move vertically, horizontally, or diagonally across the sea.
Yes

#715 – Sea Movement (PC Search) on Page #224 states:
Groups may move vertically, horizontally, or diagonally on the seas.
Yes

#720 – Land Movement on Page #224 states:
Groups may move vertically, horizontally, or diagonally on the map.
Yes

#725 – Land Movement (PC Search) on Page ##224 states:
Groups may move vertically, horizontally, or diagonally on the map.
Yes

I did not see where the rulebook actually says that emissaries and agents can move diagonally. If it does, on what page of the rulebook does it say that?

Didn’t see any mention in rule book on specific movement, ie: diagonal horizontal, or vertical. But all movement is in all direction regardless if military group, agent or emmie.

Just found in old rule book, wasn’t transferred over under “Group Movement” page 21.