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**Lord Diamond** · 07-28-2016, 09:38 PM

My devout Nomads had 5 of the first 7 attempts to raise the noble maidens fail.

**Ry Vor** · 07-29-2016, 03:38 AM

JF and Hawk are correct. The expected outcome for Fool under present criteria is a gain of 0.15. What do people think about the Fool, anyway? I doubt there is an argument that the Envoy was better, but I almost wonder if his antics should be allowed as a standing order. I like that captured Fools and HP work for the capturing kingdom instead of just being prisoners or more likely, executed.

How much you play into Lady Luck is often up to the player. You don't have to try to exceed magic maximums at exorbitant costs - play a magic kingdom instead. Many players rarely attempt an assassination through an entire game. Just minimize how much you have to depend on good luck when issuing orders. Go with the kingdom strengths rather than try to overcome its intended limitations.

Counter espionage is a much bigger factor in 3rd Cycle, and you can't often tell when it is in place, so that may hurt your aggressive agent action results. Traits have to be taken into account with various missions, promotion odds, leader promotion, etc.

Some of my comments go back to the other thread: how much do players take into account 3rd Cycle changes like Traits, both your own and your opponents? I think players are still adapting and some players that couldn't roll out their tried and true 2nd Cycle strategies as successfully in 3rd Cycle have gotten tweaked instead of embracing the new potential strategies. In 2nd Cycle, the 12 or 15 kingdoms were fixed. In 3rd Cycle, there are over 1000 different combinations in a 12 player game.

07-29-2016, 03:57 AM

I'm afraid some of the changes that have been implemented almost necessitate using the Luck system. By pushing Dome one level higher many kingdoms no longer have that valuable spell in their maximum range.

Also, for many kingdoms using your agents is playing to your strengths.

While its very frustrating to have bad luck it would be even worse to not use all the tools Alamaze provides to a kingdom. With all the talented players in the game it would be impossible to win if you played with one hand tied behind you back.

The purpose of this thread was to demonstrate that Luck does play a significant factor in the game. A point that has been disputed on this forum in the past.

**Ry Vor** · 07-29-2016, 04:33 AM

(07-29-2016, 03:57 AM)gkmetty Wrote: I'm afraid some of the changes that have been implemented almost necessitate using the Luck system. By pushing Dome one level higher many kingdoms no longer have that valuable spell in their maximum range.

Also, for many kingdoms using your agents is playing to your strengths.

While its very frustrating to have bad luck it would be even worse to not use all the tools Alamaze provides to a kingdom. With all the talented players in the game it would be impossible to win if you played with one hand tied behind you back.

The purpose of this thread was to demonstrate that Luck does play a significant factor in the game. A point that has been disputed on this forum in the past.

Points taken. But there is luck in everything, from sports to work promotions or getting a new job to all in life itself. "George! Watch out for that bus!" (Saving throw ensues.)

This side of chess and Diplomacy, is there a game where there is not some randomness? Would it be a better game that way?

I don't recall the past thread on luck but suspect it was on the degree, not on the inclusion itself.

**Jumpingfist** · 07-29-2016, 05:10 AM

About the Fool.

I have found the fool to be a great addition. Yes it is slightly less cost effective to use him over a king order but I have found it very effect to use in addition and it is very cool to get a slight reward for taking others capitals and claiming an additional fool.
The fool is the most benefit to the military kingdoms that do need all the help they can swing because now they can go over 20 without being on the council or getting Mage help. I can tell you first hand have 3 fools as the TY really helps free up my king do do other important orders.

Could even be a fun stat to track in Valhalla number of fools captured. Or even add something like (AN) to designate the kingdom they were captured from in game. Kind of like the battle ribbons.

**Atuan** · 07-29-2016, 05:14 AM

I am a firm believer in the fool. They add to a growing kingdom, I find 3 to be the right number, but then again I have never had 4. It pushes you up when don't have a council seat. And I agree to the fool captured stat.

Honestly Envoys were a waste and the Fool addition gets 2 huge thumbs up from me!!!

**Lord Diamond** · 07-29-2016, 12:04 PM

(07-29-2016, 03:38 AM)Ry Vor Wrote: What do people think about the Fool, anyway?

I love the fool! I wish we had more semi-passive characters just like this one!

**Hawk_** · (This post was last modified: 07-29-2016, 12:50 PM by Hawk_.)

(07-29-2016, 12:04 PM)Lord Diamond Wrote:
(07-29-2016, 03:38 AM)Ry Vor Wrote: What do people think about the Fool, anyway?

I love the fool! I wish we had more semi-passive characters just like this one!

JF is right regarding non-magic kingdoms and the use of the fool. It allows them to hire high priestesses and governors without destroying their influence. I love the fool as is!

**Lord Diamond** · 07-29-2016, 02:32 PM

Yes, please don't take away the Fool standing order.

**Frost Lord** · 07-29-2016, 03:23 PM

I love the Fool. As soon as I recon a Capital, I throw everything I've got at trying to kidnap one... "I pity that Fool!"

And yes, I typically set my Fool up on standing order, but I also keep a standing order to guard him (oh yea, and my king too, since Agents can guard 2 characters). :-)

That's 2 standing orders that are not being used on something else, so using your Fool on standing order does come with a cost.