Game 5684

[Strongwill]

QUESTION: To train agents above Level 9 requires the building of a Thieves Guild, correct? yes


QUESTION: And before you can construct a Thieves Guild in a pop center, you first have to construct a Bazaar, correct?
Yes


QUESTION: To train a Level 9 agent to a higher level, does the agent have to be located in the pop center where the Thieves Guild is located?

Yes

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Trying to fill out my turn orders for Turn #4. I receive the following error message:

ERROR MESSAGES:
ORDER #500: THIEVES GUILD REQUIRED TO TRAIN AGENT (OR FANATIC) PAST LEVEL 9 [Standing Order]

If I issue the character in question another order, without cancelling the Standing Order for this character, what will happen? Will the Standing Order remain intact for this character, but they won't carry out the new order? Or will the Standing Order remain intact for this character, but it will carry out the new order, instead of the Standing Order? Or will it just end up being a waste of an order on my part for the coming turn?

I usually leave it as a standing order and build the guild. You can cancel the order and use him to steal food or gold if it takes a few turns to build?

[Maximus Dominus]

I usually leave it as a standing order and build the guild. You can cancel the order and use him to steal food or gold if it takes a few turns to build?

Can't build the Thieves Guild, as one must build a Bazaar, first. (Boo! Hiss! Hiss!)

I wonder why the UN5684Setup.html file didn't mention either a Bazaar or a Thieves Guild, as that's fairly relevant information, provided an Underworld player doesn't want to end up behind the 8-Ball on the training of its agents to higher levels. The end result is that now, my Level 9 agent will have to not train to a higher level for two turns. Not exactly a motivator. This is a good example of how to generate a loss of interest in players.

[Jon Deaux]

AN - LY  Please relay location of town for trade, you can do it after this turn runs.  I will swoop in on turn 6 I think.

AN - HA  A bit of luck landing on your hidden village, I will leave it alone.  In return perhaps you can spare a village or town on or bordering the Endless Sea?  Assuming you have more than one of course.

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I usually leave it as a standing order and build the guild. You can cancel the order and use him to steal food or gold if it takes a few turns to build?

Can't build the Thieves Guild, as one must build a Bazaar, first. (Boo! Hiss! Hiss!)

I wonder why the UN5684Setup.html file didn't mention either a Bazaar or a Thieves Guild, as that's fairly relevant information, provided an Underworld player doesn't want to end up behind the 8-Ball on the training of its agents to higher levels. The end result is that now, my Level 9 agent will have to not train to a higher level for two turns. Not exactly a motivator. This is a good example of how to generate a loss of interest in players.

I agree this requirement of a bazaar before a thieves guild always bugged me too.

[Maximus Dominus]

I still need an answer to this question:

ERROR MESSAGES:
ORDER #500: THIEVES GUILD REQUIRED TO TRAIN AGENT (OR FANATIC) PAST LEVEL 9 [Standing Order]

If I issue the character in question another order, without cancelling the Standing Order for this character, what will happen? Will the Standing Order remain intact for this character, but they won't carry out the new order? Or will the Standing Order remain intact for this character, but it will carry out the new order, instead of the Standing Order? Or will it just end up being a waste of an order on my part for the coming turn?

[Jon Deaux]

I still need an answer to this question:

ERROR MESSAGES:
ORDER #500: THIEVES GUILD REQUIRED TO TRAIN AGENT (OR FANATIC) PAST LEVEL 9 [Standing Order]

If I issue the character in question another order, without cancelling the Standing Order for this character, what will happen? Will the Standing Order remain intact for this character, but they won't carry out the new order? Or will the Standing Order remain intact for this character, but it will carry out the new order, instead of the Standing Order? Or will it just end up being a waste of an order on my part for the coming turn?

If you have a standing 500 order, then issue a 53 order, for instance to counter-espionage (CE), or a 350 order to move, the CE or move order will go through, the 500 order will fail.  However, next turn if you issue no orders for that agent, the 500 order will still take effect.

If you have a standing 500 order to train, and you issue a 900+ order to steal or whatever, the 500 order will go through, and the steal order will fail.

In other words, the lowest number order given will go through, the other will fail.  But that does not erase the standing order, it will still be there next turn.

I use this fact to save an order early in the game, for instance, I always issue the order to increase influence on standing order on turn 1 (assuming hidden city), but on turn two I issue the enamor order, which makes the influence order fail for one turn, but its still there next turn.

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I hate to do it, but I think I will sell 80k food this turn for 40k gold.  Any interest?

[Strongwill]

Actually in the rule book under agent says nothing if lvl 9 agents needing the theives guild. It’s in the description of theives guild but it really should be on every turn sheet as max level available without guild. And a link to the guild, and its requirements to build? Might make game less confusing for those new players?

[Maximus Dominus]

If you have a standing 500 order, then issue a 53 order, for instance to counter-espionage (CE), or a 350 order to move, the CE or move order will go through, the 500 order will fail.  However, next turn if you issue no orders for that agent, the 500 order will still take effect.

If you have a standing 500 order to train, and you issue a 900+ order to steal or whatever, the 500 order will go through, and the steal order will fail.

In other words, the lowest number order given will go through, the other will fail.  But that does not erase the standing order, it will still be there next turn.

I use this fact to save an order early in the game, for instance, I always issue the order to increase influence on standing order on turn 1 (assuming hidden city), but on turn two I issue the enamor order, which makes the influence order fail for one turn, but its still there next turn.

Thank you for that response, Jon. I know that I can cancel Standing Orders, but that it requires the use of an order for each Standing Order that I choose to cancel, if I'm not mistaken. I want to avoid wasting order slots unnecessarily, where possible.

[Wookie Panz]

QUESTION: What does the following mean?

The More The Merrier Hire additional emissaries and move all of them at the same time for a faster conquest of a region

That's not a good idea for the early game.
Maybe later but it depends on your kingdom and the situation.

Is it just referring to moving all of them, individually, but just doing that with multiple different characters, all at the same time using individual #350 Move Emissary orders for each?

When I first glance at it over on the left hand side of the Alamaze Online Order System, it got me to wondering whether there's a way to move multiple emissaries in the same turn to the same location using only one order. Hence, why I asked. This may be a case of me not seeing the forest (the obvious) for the trees (me barking up the wrong tree/wrong thought process).

Tell me this, Wookie Panz, what would you consider good ideas for the early game to be? Also, how many turns constitute the early game phase of Alamaze?

Additionally, what would you consider to be some terrible ideas for the early game phase?

Early game I am thinking roughly the first 10 turns.  Mid game maybe 12- 25.  Late game after that but some games move so quickly they end by turn 25 so it depends on how fast the game is moving.
The first priority is getting control of your starting region.  When you control enough pop centers (P.C.) to get control the regional control goes to you and any neutrals that are left flip to you.  Player controlled and human controlled p.c.'s will not flip to you.  You have to take them by  military or emissary. 
Read the rule book about control.  If it says you need 60% of the population for control I suggest you add up the villages at 1 point each, towns at 2 points, and a major city at three points.  Through experience you will learn how many of each type pop center is in each region.  You can always ask on the forum and chances are someone will tell you what a given area holds for p,c's. 
So figure how many total points by adding the villages, towns, and the city.  Lets say 5 villages x1, 4 towns x 2, and a city x3 so 5+8+3= 14 points.  If the rules say you need 60% for control  you need .6 x 14 so 8.4 which you round up to 9.  When you hit that level in this example you get control and good things happen.  With practice you can start to do this in 5 turns and if you get really sharp 4 turns.  Sometimes it takes longer but 6-7 turns is going to put you behind the leaders.
On moving emissaries you need to figure out economy of movement.  What does it take you to take the city, the town, and the village?  They all cost gold and orders to move so do you want your Duke going to a village that a governor can take?  You can only move one politician, also referred to sometimes as pols or emissary with one order.
Here is a shortcut: 
 For a pc outside of your starting area where you have your second town or village when you tax it and it revolts everyone there except military relocates to your capital.  The down side is your regional reaction takes a hit in the region you taxed.
Max I remember my first turns taking several hours as I plodded along having to look up everything and fortunately I could call a friend if I really got stuck.  With lots of practice the early turns take about 20 minutes or less for me but it took a long time to reach that point.

[Maximus Dominus]

Turn orders Turn #4 for the Underworld are in.

   

[Maximus Dominus]

Early game I am thinking roughly the first 10 turns.  Mid game maybe 12- 25.  Late game after that but some games move so quickly they end by turn 25 so it depends on how fast the game is moving.
The first priority is getting control of your starting region.  When you control enough pop centers (P.C.) to get control the regional control goes to you and any neutrals that are left flip to you.  Player controlled and human controlled p.c.'s will not flip to you.  You have to take them by  military or emissary. 
Read the rule book about control.  If it says you need 60% of the population for control I suggest you add up the villages at 1 point each, towns at 2 points, and a major city at three points.  Through experience you will learn how many of each type pop center is in each region.  You can always ask on the forum and chances are someone will tell you what a given area holds for p,c's. 
So figure how many total points by adding the villages, towns, and the city.  Lets say 5 villages x1, 4 towns x 2, and a city x3 so 5+8+3= 14 points.  If the rules say you need 60% for control  you need .6 x 14 so 8.4 which you round up to 9.  When you hit that level in this example you get control and good things happen.  With practice you can start to do this in 5 turns and if you get really sharp 4 turns.  Sometimes it takes longer but 6-7 turns is going to put you behind the leaders.
On moving emissaries you need to figure out economy of movement.  What does it take you to take the city, the town, and the village?  They all cost gold and orders to move so do you want your Duke going to a village that a governor can take?  You can only move one politician, also referred to sometimes as pols or emissary with one order.
Here is a shortcut: 
 For a pc outside of your starting area where you have your second town or village when you tax it and it revolts everyone there except military relocates to your capital.  The down side is your regional reaction takes a hit in the region you taxed.
Max I remember my first turns taking several hours as I plodded along having to look up everything and fortunately I could call a friend if I really got stuck.  With lots of practice the early turns take about 20 minutes or less for me but it took a long time to reach that point.

Thank you for this response, Wookie Panz.

Generally speaking, undertaking all of the math associated with Alamaze is arguably the thing that I dislike the most about the game, all things considered. The math seems to take precedence over the fantasy aspect. Number crunch, number crunch, number crunch!

To me, the math is a huge distraction. Most likely, the very last thing about Alamaze that I will try to delve into is the math associated with army units/groups, whatever the right term for them is. Play Alamaze - where every turn is a mathematical pop quiz!

To each their own, I suppose. The greater the math quotient, the less the fun quotient, in my book.